Audacity Forum

Hello,

This is Mohamed from EGYPT - Cairo.

It gives me a great pleasure writing to you.

Please I am looking for a vocal microphone but really confused with all these technical details and brands and models, and cannot make up my mind so I hope you may help me to choose a one and make an order.

I will use the microphone only for the following purposes:-

1) Commenting on my educational screencasting video tutorials.

2) Make my audio books.

I will not do any kind of music performance at all.

So after googling a lot I've found that I've two options to do it as follow:-

(A) To buy an USB vocal microphone which is all-in-one solution and connect it directly to my computer. (Most professional reviews go toward recommending xlr option).

(B) To buy XLR vocal microphone and a mixer support phantom power, and connect the mixer to computer using USB audio interface or get a mixer that is already has an USB interface so I can connect the mixer directly to my computer.

So please help me for which option is better for the best vocal sound quality?

Also I will use the microphone for these purposes only and no one will be setting next to me during recording (I mean it is a one direction for recording) and of course will use a pop filter to get a smooth sound and a portable pooth.

I've found some mixer like (Focusrite Scarlett 2i2) & (Behringer XENYX 302USB) but I do not know what is the best one of them or to use some adapter like (Shure X2u XLR-to-USB) Signal Adapter.

I've found a lot of technical details and I'd love to know your opinion about it as an experienced user.

Please excuse my poor technical knowledge and mistakes because I am totally new to these stuffs.

*) Almost all reviews go for XLR over USB, and I think I will do the same and pick the XLR.

*) Another reason for the XLR and a mixer is the option for later on expansion in case I need to attach more than one microphone, using of a mixer with 2 or 3 inputs will make it easy while using all-in-one usb will just limit it to use it or let it go if you want to change for a reason or another.

*) Mixer could be connected to computer without a USB interface through the line-in interface socket that is already existing in any given sound card, so even if the mixer does not include a USB interface cable it is still connectable to a computer, while I did not test it or found any YouTube for it but theoretically it makes sense.

*) Most vocal microphone suffer a lot of collecting background especially sensitive models and I did found a lot of complains of the famous Blue Yeti and Audio Technica ... and on the other hand the dynamic microphones are far good especially when you record and set in the direct front of the microphone and use appropriate microphone etiquette.

and found the following dynamic microphones :-
(Shure SM7B) & (RE20) & (Heil PR40) & (Rode Procaster).

Or still condenser vocal microphones a better option? I am just a bit worry regarding picking up the background noises in the room or the the other places in the house.

And been reading tons of reviews and a lot of YouTube testing and I think I will go for the XLR but now I am confused about which mixer to buy and which dynamic microphone to buy .. I am thinking about it as a long term investment so the most important thing for me is the quality of the sound and I do not mind to buy the expensive microphone for the long run investment usage. but I am not after the expensive itself but I mean the good and best quality.

So please advise because your opinion really = $$ and saving a lot of trials and errors time.

Finally if you have a better option, please advise.

Thanks a lot
Mohamed.

Please excuse my poor technical knowledge and mistakes because I am totally new to these stuffs.

We're going to get you to write technical descriptions for the forum. Are you sure you've never done this before?

I wrote two live performance answers that may help a little. The microphone and connection systems are important, but they are tiny compared to a quiet and echo-free room. People laugh at me when I say they need a "studio," but I don't mean a room with expensive wall treatments, pleasant lighting, double-glass windows and control room. I mean a room with no dog barking or TV running. I mean a room that doesn't sound like a barn, plain empty room or empty garage or car park.

Modern stylish rooms with polished wood floors and plain walls with expensive artwork means you will be recording your performance somewhere else. Professional recordists try to call in sick when they have to record a well-paid actor in one of those houses.

http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic ... 19#p230204
http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic ... 23#p230212

They may give you a better feel for how this works. One of the posters mentioned a microphone with both a USB and an XLR connection. That may work for you as USB for a long time and allow you to expand to a sound mixer later. I have no experience with those microphones.

I write toward "Americanisms" so I may lose you here and there. "As The World Turns" is a popular afternoon TV show.

Koz

As Koz suggested, one of the most underrated piece of "equipment" is the room. To get really good recordings you need a good room. If there is background noise then a good microphone will pick it up. If there is echo then a good microphone will pick that up too. Lots of soft furnishings, heavy curtains and carpet can help to soak up sound. An empty bare room will sound like an empty bare room. These are things that cannot be fixed so they must be right in the original recording.

MGadAllah wrote:Most vocal microphone suffer a lot of collecting background especially sensitive models and I did found a lot of complains of the famous Blue Yeti and Audio Technica

It is very common for people that are new to recording to underestimate the importance of the room (the recording environment). "This microphone is rubbish, there is a constant tick tick tick..." which turns out to be the clock on the other side of the wall. A good microphone, any good microphone, will pick up tiny details of sound that people are not normally aware of. This is not a recommendation for or against any particular microphone, but to criticise a microphone because it picks up background noise is an unrealistic criticism. Microphones are designed to pick up "sound", any sound. Some microphones are more directional than others, but other than that a microphone does magically know which sound you want to record and which sound you don't - it will pick up any sound that is there.

MGadAllah wrote:Another reason for the XLR and a mixer is the option for later on expansion in case I need to attach more than one microphone, using of a mixer with 2 or 3 inputs will make it easy while using all-in-one usb will just limit it to use it or let it go if you want to change for a reason or another.

Yes, that can be a big reason to not go for a USB mic. The job that USB microphones are designed for is when you need one microphone and only one microphone. Although some recording programs are able to record from more than one audio device at a time, there is still a risk using 2 USB microphones that they can gradually drift out of synch with each other, causing strange unwanted effects. Audacity can only record from one device at a time, so if you're recording one USB microphone then that is the limit.

On the other hand, if you will only ever need one microphone, then a USB microphone can be a good choice. A USB microphone is likely to be about the same price as a conventional (XLR) microphone. If you have a limited budget and you don't need to but a sound card or a mixer then you have more of your budget available for the microphone, headphones and other equipment.

Another important consideration with USB microphones is if you need to hear your own voice through your headphones (often not necessary, but if you do...) then you need to use a USB microphone that has a headphone socket built into the microphone. Some USB microphones have this and some don't.

The third important consideration with USB microphones is "how loud is your voice?"
Most USB microphones have fixed "gain". That is, the recording "volume" from microphone through to becoming a digital signal is fixed. If you have a quiet voice then the digital signal will be low level - the digital level can be increased by amplifying, but all microphones and microphone pre-amps have some amount of "self noise" (usually in the form of hiss). If the recorded signal is quiet, then it will need to be amplified, which will not only amplify your voice but will also amplify the "hiss".
On some (generally more expensive) USB microphone there may be a "gain control" which allows you to control how much the microphone signal is amplified before it is turned into a digital signal. This is very important if you wish to record things that are especially loud or especially quiet.

If you are concerned about future expansion of your "studio" the a conventional XLR microphone will probably be the better option (either with a mixing desk or with a USB microphone pre-amp). If you will only ever need to use one microphone and you can find one that gives good results with your voice, then a USB microphone may be worth considering.

There is one problem with USB microphones that was revealed in several posts recently. Condenser microphones require power to operate. Unlike ribbon or dynamic (moving coil) microphones, condensers all have electronics inside. They can be designed to run from an actual battery you have to buy and install, the "Phantom Power" service in a sound mixer, Mic-In on a computer or the USB socket on the side of a computer. DC or "battery" has to come from somewhere.

In the case of the USB socket, the computer makes five volts and supplies it on one of the USB gold pins. If the computer doesn't do a particularly good job of providing a clean, quiet and well-behaved five volts, most USB devices like keyboards and mice will not care, but a USB microphone may fail. One complaint was of a electronics hobby person who changed his computer motherboard (essentially the whole computer) and the new one would not work with his USB microphone. His was not the only complaint.

The problem is background noise like frying, sizzling, popping, or whining added to the show.

~~

I do have experience with the Samson G-Track USB microphone.

http://www.kozco.com/tech/audacity/pix/ ... ctions.jpg

I certified it for use in Perfect Overdubbing.

http://manual.audacityteam.org/o/man/tu ... rdubs.html

The owner (not me) uses it for singing and recording guitar for band rehearsals and new song composition. He likes it and I liked it while I was using it.

Koz

kozikowski wrote:There is one problem with USB microphones that was revealed in several posts recently. Condenser microphones require power to operate. Unlike ribbon or dynamic (moving coil) microphones, condensers all have electronics inside. They can be designed to run from an actual battery you have to buy and install, the "Phantom Power" service in a sound mixer, Mic-In on a computer or the USB socket on the side of a computer. DC or "battery" has to come from somewhere.

Yes that is true.

kozikowski wrote:In the case of the USB socket, the computer makes five volts and supplies it on one of the USB gold pins. If the computer doesn't do a particularly good job of providing a clean, quiet and well-behaved five volts, most USB devices like keyboards and mice will not care, but a USB microphone may fail. One complaint was of a electronics hobby person who changed his computer motherboard (essentially the whole computer) and the new one would not work with his USB microphone. His was not the only complaint.

This is why I've bought a good power supply to ensure the end result. Also many complained about connecting to non-main USB ports. I mean it must be connected to a USB port that is directly connected to motherboard.

kozikowski wrote:The problem is background noise like frying, sizzling, popping, or whining added to the show.

Agreed.

~~

kozikowski wrote:I do have experience with the Samson G-Track USB microphone.

http://www.kozco.com/tech/audacity/pix/ ... ctions.jpg

I certified it for use in Perfect Overdubbing.

http://manual.audacityteam.org/o/man/tu ... rdubs.html

The owner (not me) uses it for singing and recording guitar for band rehearsals and new song composition. He likes it and I liked it while I was using it.

But will it fit well for vocal purposes ?

steve wrote:As Koz suggested, one of the most underrated piece of "equipment" is the room. To get really good recordings you need a good room. If there is background noise then a good microphone will pick it up. If there is echo then a good microphone will pick that up too. Lots of soft furnishings, heavy curtains and carpet can help to soak up sound. An empty bare room will sound like an empty bare room. These are things that cannot be fixed so they must be right in the original recording.

I am sorry that I did not mentioned that I will use a portable booth.

It is very common for people that are new to recording to underestimate the importance of the room (the recording environment). "This microphone is rubbish, there is a constant tick tick tick..." which turns out to be the clock on the other side of the wall. A good microphone, any good microphone, will pick up tiny details of sound that people are not normally aware of. This is not a recommendation for or against any particular microphone, but to criticise a microphone because it picks up background noise is an unrealistic criticism. Microphones are designed to pick up "sound", any sound. Some microphones are more directional than others, but other than that a microphone does magically know which sound you want to record and which sound you don't - it will pick up any sound that is there.

Thanks for highlighting this

Yes, that can be a big reason to not go for a USB mic. The job that USB microphones are designed for is when you need one microphone and only one microphone. Although some recording programs are able to record from more than one audio device at a time, there is still a risk using 2 USB microphones that they can gradually drift out of synch with each other, causing strange unwanted effects. Audacity can only record from one device at a time, so if you're recording one USB microphone then that is the limit.

Is it possible that I may use two dynamics microphone to record?

On the other hand, if you will only ever need one microphone, then a USB microphone can be a good choice. A USB microphone is likely to be about the same price as a conventional (XLR) microphone. If you have a limited budget and you don't need to but a sound card or a mixer then you have more of your budget available for the microphone, headphones and other equipment.

I think I may need it later on, so I will go for XLR.

Another important consideration with USB microphones is if you need to hear your own voice through your headphones (often not necessary, but if you do...) then you need to use a USB microphone that has a headphone socket built into the microphone. Some USB microphones have this and some don't.

Yes, thanks for the tip.

The third important consideration with USB microphones is "how loud is your voice?"
Most USB microphones have fixed "gain". That is, the recording "volume" from microphone through to becoming a digital signal is fixed. If you have a quiet voice then the digital signal will be low level - the digital level can be increased by amplifying, but all microphones and microphone pre-amps have some amount of "self noise" (usually in the form of hiss). If the recorded signal is quiet, then it will need to be amplified, which will not only amplify your voice but will also amplify the "hiss".
On some (generally more expensive) USB microphone there may be a "gain control" which allows you to control how much the microphone signal is amplified before it is turned into a digital signal. This is very important if you wish to record things that are especially loud or especially quiet.

Then I can confirm that I will go towards XLR solution.

If you are concerned about future expansion of your "studio" the a conventional XLR microphone will probably be the better option (either with a mixing desk or with a USB microphone pre-amp). If you will only ever need to use one microphone and you can find one that gives good results with your voice, then a USB microphone may be worth considering.

thanks for confirming and i will go for xlr.

kozikowski wrote:

Please excuse my poor technical knowledge and mistakes because I am totally new to these stuffs.

We're going to get you to write technical descriptions for the forum. Are you sure you've never done this before?

Thanks for the nice words but it is just i tried to do my homework first before posting here and reading and watching reviews and tutorials really helped a lot. Also when I am reading any reviews I start with the low rated stars reviews which show disadvantages so I search for it to get a better idea and it did paid back in more understanding for the big picture.
I will be glad to do anything that may help anyone and glad to offer my services for free here in the forum

kozikowski wrote:I wrote two live performance answers that may help a little. The microphone and connection systems are important, but they are tiny compared to a quiet and echo-free room. People laugh at me when I say they need a "studio," but I don't mean a room with expensive wall treatments, pleasant lighting, double-glass windows and control room. I mean a room with no dog barking or TV running. I mean a room that doesn't sound like a barn, plain empty room or empty garage or car park.

You are completely 100% true regarding the room and how full or empty it is.

kozikowski wrote:Modern stylish rooms with polished wood floors and plain walls with expensive artwork means you will be recording your performance somewhere else. Professional recordists try to call in sick when they have to record a well-paid actor in one of those houses.

I've a very classic room which has a lot of furnitures and I think it will be good for that purposes >>> I've found some people make a very good and amazing portable booth with a very cheap materials and some others using egg holders to cover the walls in the room.

kozikowski wrote:They may give you a better feel for how this works. One of the posters mentioned a microphone with both a USB and an XLR connection. That may work for you as USB for a long time and allow you to expand to a sound mixer later. I have no experience with those microphones.

I write toward "Americanisms" so I may lose you here and there. "As The World Turns" is a popular afternoon TV show.

Koz

Ok, I will check both of them.

Please may I reask for the vocal xlr microphone you are recommending and which sound mixer with usb interface you are recommending? and is it possible or make sense to get two microphone and attach them to mixer to get a better sound? I mean get the two famous good vocal microphone in the market

If you use a stereo mixer, then when you plug an XLR microphone in, you usually have the ability to "fade" the sound anywhere from the left through the middle and to the right. If you plug in two microphones, whether they match or not, you can assign one microphone to the left and the other to the right -- or put them both in the middle and the show will sound like half of both.

However. There are demons associated with this process. Early FM Stereo broadcasts had two microphones for the announcer/presenter. The announcer would lean over to pick up his pencil while he was talking and three cars would drive off the road and one listener would get motion-sick. Nobody does that any more.

Microphones can interfere with each other. You can get Comb Filter Effects where the combination of the two microphones respond to certain pitch vocal tones better than others -- and it changes as you sing or speak higher pitches. It can sound like speaking in a barrel in extreme conditions. Some sound technicians put two microphones on a podium -- and then disconnect one of them and not tell anybody.

~~

The Electro-Voice RE20 is a terrific dynamic (moving coil) microphone for speaking. It's used in many broadcast and theatrical voice recording studios.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ ... fgods20ACw

That and a shock mount, stand and blast screen and you're good to go.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/309A

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PopFilter6/

I have this stand and work has two. I like it. It's stable without being heavy.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MicStdFBoomL/

Koz

This is an actual broadcast sound shoot. That's my stand, microphone with shock mount, the blast filter (barely visible) mixer and computer with Audacity. The client said the show went very well and he was pleased with the sound.

The microphone is an AKG C 414B XLII.

http://www.kozco.com/tech/audacity/pix/ ... dShoot.jpg

Probably overkill, but it was available. We double recorded the session and didn't need the backup.

Koz

My personal general mixer is a Peavey PV6. Probably its worst two shortcomings are the inability to run from batteries (I have not actually tried the car battery trick) and it uses knobs instead of slide faders for each sound channel. I have the analog mixer because my Mac has a very good stereo analog Line-in. This mixer also comes in a USB version that I have never used.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/search. ... &Go=Search

People generally get into trouble by digging to the smallest and lowest cost mixer and sacrificing some quality or feature that's really necessary.

My opinion is I need three different places to set microphone level: Trim, Volume and Master. Each one has a slightly different job and contributes to the overall success of the performance. If you have all three controls, the mixer typically has more range to boost low volume signals than other, smaller mixers, and it's easier to get a well-balanced multi-microphone performance (should you need that).

I have two field mixers, but the one I like best is the broken one. This is a Shure FP33 going out on a job.

http://kozco.com/pix/shureFP33SoundShoot.jpg

It has the mark of a successful mixer. There's no paint left, you can't read any of the knobs any more and you can't have it right now because it's on a job.

Koz

That's Rush Limbaugh and his gold RE20.
Koz

kozikowski wrote:or put them both in the middle and the show will sound like half of both.

You mean it is better to use two dynamics microphones like re-20 & heil pr-40? or you mean that using two mics will result in getting half the quality?

kozikowski wrote:Microphones can interfere with each other.

So it is better to use only one kind?

kozikowski wrote:The Electro-Voice RE20 is a terrific dynamic (moving coil) microphone for speaking. It's used in many broadcast and theatrical voice recording studios.

So you think it is better than the Hiel PR-40 ? I mean I've realized that PR-40 is sounded deeper and rich compared to RE-20 and I do not know if it is a matter of adjusting the mixer or it is something related to the microphone itself.

kozikowski wrote:I have this stand and work has two. I like it. It's stable without being heavy.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MicStdFBoomL/

I will need a boom arm for the microphone so it is like those we see on the radio studio.

kozikowski wrote:This is an actual broadcast sound shoot. That's my stand, microphone with shockmount, the blast filter (barely visible) mixer and computer with Audacity. The client said the show went very well and he was pleased with the sound.
The microphone is an AKG C 414B XLII.
Probably overkill, but it was available. We double recorded the session and didn't need the backup.
Koz

1st of all thanks for the tip for how to use the stand over the desk because I thought the stand on only used on a stage and a boom arm only on the desk.
2nd I do like a lot your place and how you arrange things a lot
So the microphone in this picture is AKG C 414 B XL II and the mixer is Peavey PV6, what about the other items in the picture?

kozikowski wrote:That's Rush Limbaugh and his gold RE20.Koz

Is it a prodcast ?

kozikowski wrote:My personal general mixer is a Peavey PV6. Probably its worst two shortcomings are the inability to run from batteries (I have not actually tried the car battery trick) and it uses knobs instead of slide faders for each sound channel. I have the analog mixer because my Mac has a very good stereo analog Line-in. This mixer also comes in a USB version that I have never used.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/search. ... &Go=Search
People generally get into trouble by digging to the smallest and lowest cost mixer and sacrificing some quality or feature that's really necessary.

When I searched 1st I've found the brand behringer mixer is the cheap and most reviewed online so I was about to buy the one with the usb interface but later on I've found two many suffer of its noise as you mentioned beside that I read many times that behringer mixer is a cheap copy of the mackie mixers and I've found the famous Cliff from PodcastAnswerMan recommending Mackie 1402-VLZ4 Mixer with Heil PR-40.

kozikowski wrote:My opinion is I need three different places to set microphone level: Trim, Volume and Master. Each one has a slightly different job and contributes to the overall success of the performance. If you have all three controls, the mixer typically has more range to boost low volume signals than other, smaller mixers, and it's easier to get a well-balanced multi-microphone performance (should you need that).

I am afraid that I do not understand this technical details and would like to know more about it.

kozikowski wrote:I have two field mixers, but the one I like best is the broken one. This is a Shure FP33 going out on a job.
http://kozco.com/pix/shureFP33SoundShoot.jpg
It has the mark of a successful mixer. There's no paint left, you can't read any of the knobs any more and you can't have it right now because it's on a job.
Koz

It is more than 1000 $$ ..

So to sum it up you are recommending using the re-20 (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000Z7LLQ0/) which is $414.16 compared to heil pr-40 (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BQXOEM/) which is $310.00 ? does the 100 $$ deserve the technical differences in between both microphones?

Also for the mixer shall I buy the mentioned mackie mixer (Mackie 1402-VLZ4 Mixer) or there is something else from mackie? I've found too many models here (http://www.mackie.com/products/mixers/index.html).

Thanks a lot