Audacity Forum

Line level audio is the stuff that falls out of your iPod, or other music player and it's the sound level that comes out of a cassette player or stand-alone music CD player. It's the red and white sound cables in the back of your sound system. It's pretty loud. In very fuzzy terms, it's about the same electrical size as a flashlight battery. About a volt.

Microphone level is about a thousand times quieter than that. It's seriously small, delicate and easily damaged.

When I looked at your mixer, I saw the noise numbers. They're clearly published and all amplifiers introduce noise. The noise numbers and your microphone signals are about the same size. Both about a thousand times smaller than Line Level.

You see where we're going with this? By the time you amplify your voice far enough up to make it useful, you're going to take all the mixer's internal ocean surf and rain noises up with it. SHSHSHSHSHSHSH

That's why you almost always boost your voice in a special, very low-noise microphone amplifier before you try to mix. That's all built-in in the case of that mixer I posted.

Koz

So your advice from where we are right now is to send everything I have back, get a preamped mixer (like the one you've posted) and try the headset steve posted?

I think I'm understanding that I want to amplify to vocals then monkey with the levels because if I just monkey with levels then I will get a ton of noise that is really difficult to get rid of which is a problem I'm having now.

edit- So, dynamic is the keyword I need to look for to avoid needing power for the sets, right? Is any dynamic microphone acceptable as far as not needing to power them?

Theoretically, these would work:

http://www.amazon.com/jWIN-JBM44-Gaming ... 776&sr=1-1

or

http://www.amazon.com/Computer-Headphon ... 776&sr=1-4

probably more likely the second option, though I can't really tell where the mic is on it... Ok, now that I look at it, more likely the first option... and I also assume the souns is rubbish. -end edit

You guys rock.

http://www.amazon.com/jWIN-JBM44-Gaming ... 776&sr=1-1

These people go on and on about the high quality of the Dynamic Headphones and don't say anything about the microphone, which generally means it's powered from the computer, like yours.

http://www.amazon.com/Computer-Headphon ... 776&sr=1-4

<<<Dynamic Headphone with hidden microphone & Volume Control>>>

The headphone is "dynamic," yes. Moving coil. But the microphone is powered from the computer -- like yours.

"Dynamic" in this case is not so much the quality of the performance, but the type of microphone. Your voice moves a tiny coil of wire in the presence of a magnet. The all time champ of Rock Band microphones is a dynamic type.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SM58/

Earpieces on headphones and almost all loudspeakers are dynamic in reverse. Shoot juice to the coil in the presence of a magnet and it moves.

I'm using that mixer as an example. It only has four microphone inputs and the next model up does, too. So neither one is going to do exactly what you want.

Even if you do get Steve's headset that doesn't need batteries, you'll still need the adapter to get the 1/8" microphone connector into the mixer. That's one's custom, too. I don't know anybody who makes that. That's the short adapter cable just below center in the top illustration...

http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic ... =10#p80958

So we're still not down to a working system yet.

Koz

There are commercial headsets.

Spears continues to use the same mic she favored when she first started performing — a Crown 311 headset. “It sounds good, it works; it's actually the same one. Anyone who is a fan of Britney can see it's actually the same mic — we have a few of them,” Suib says. When a song calls for a handheld, Suib pulls out a Sennheiser wireless. The two background singers use Shure SM58s.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Crown-CM-31 ... 1127294.gc

That will plug straight into the Peavey or any larger mixer with no adapters. However, it's not $14 USD. We have a Sennheiser C555L headset we use for performances. Terrific microphone, but that wasn't $14 USD, either.

You're designing a very odd duck and it doesn't easily fit with cheap commercial parts. You can do that, but it's really good if you can sling solder and use electronic tools.

Koz

So is a non-powered dynamic mic, like what steve linked to, only going to use an xlr connection (or is that something that just looks like xlr?)? The other part of that would be are any of these pre-amp mixers going to have non-XLR connections, or is that what you are saying? Is "XLR" the right term?

I'm all about the odd ducks, man. I like to do things that are well beyond my understanding which usually end in failure... I can solder my butt off, but I only know a very limited amount of things due to my soldering experience, I know nothing of capacitors and that kinda junk. I've got a feeling that if I could afford a $200 I wouldn't be having any of these issues. Boo.

So, let's say steve's mics, a pre-amped mixer (likely with XLR connections) and the adapter (which you made? I think I've seen instructions on that before... maybe not though). From there all I have to come with is the talent and content for my show... Does that sound correct?

Can't say thanks enough, man, really.

<<<From there all I have to come with is the talent and content for my show... Does that sound correct?>>>

Almost. That will take you up to four. The original show had eight.

The adapter isn't difficult. I can post the wiring diagram and picture. We use those adapters in multiple places around the building with one of these microphones for training exercises.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index ... Id=2102927

Each microphone has its own battery.

The adapter has an XLR3M. Three pin, XLR type, Male. The mixer has XLR3F.

I need to read that last post again when I have a minute.

Koz

@ aighead, Have you tried plugging an "el cheapo" dynamic microphone into your little mixer and plugging the little mixer into your computer and recording it?
If not, and if you can do so easily, please try it.

On the forum we sometimes have a bit of a proneness toward looking for "professional audio standard solutions" - when that is not always being asked for. ALL of the equipment that I use have XLR for microphone inputs, but I'm sure I've still got an old Tandy mixer tucked away somewhere that has 1/4" jack microphone inputs.

Getting all of the right input levels and impedance matching is the "correct" way to do things - and produces the best results - but going back to when I first started messing around with audio and recording, I used whatever I could get my hands on. Sometimes a "bad on paper" mix-and-match can work, at least "well enough".

We would like you to use a bunch of good quality headset microphones - probably with 48v phantom power provided by a mixing desk, connected to the computer with a high quality sound card, but that's going to set you back big bucks and I don't think that is what you are looking for. Let's go back to the stuff that you currently have - what sort of recording can you get with the equipment that you already have? What "more" do you need?

I actually wrote that a while ago.. Plug one entire channel together all the way from the microphone thru the mixer and on to the computer and see what happens.

Koz

Then we are in concord - hang on though, wasn't that retired some 7 years ago? .. Oh, no, that's different - it had an "e" on the end.

I have a Radio Shack mic like: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index ... Id=4085499

It works fine through the mixer.

I guess it's a dynamic mic with a 1/4" jack so that answers my dumb question about all dynamic mics being xlr.

What I have works ok, it's just a very small microphone that picks up the noise from a fair amount of the east side of Dayton, Ohio. The biggest problem (which a problem I rather like) is that our recording spaces are ideally outsidish or in large echoey spaces, certainly not ideal for sound capturing. The other big problem is a couple really loud guys and a couple quieter ones. I'd like to be able to even everyone out a fair amount without picking up tons of outside noise. The extra channel or two of mixer space I'd like to have is for recording the sounds of the city with my current microphone (the one that picks up everything) and maybe a channel for hooking up some other noise creating device.

If I felt confident that I could make that circuit 6-8 times, and ideally make it semi-mobile (I dunno, laptop sized?) for almost free I'd totally be alright with that. It's probably like 60 bucks worth of stuff, right? I can't afford that. If it's 30, I could do it, but...

I also have a Gemini 626 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000V6 ... V824P1TDM1

It's an older model but I imagine they haven't changed too much. I haven't used it due to the stereo to RCA cable issue (meaning I don't have any) and the times I've just mic'ed in to the mixer it seems to have big noise problems. I could likely be doing something wrong too. I've also got a couple other similar style low end microphones sitting around, like the crappy stick mic.