Clicking black "split line" auto-merges. Turn off?

[RDavey]

Windows 7 Pro
Audacity 2.0.6

Clicking on the black "split line" between clips does an automatic merge of the clips.
Can that feature be turned off?
I know there are work-arounds to selecting to the clip - double-clicking, starting the select elsewhere - its just annoying if I am zoomed in and want to start at that point.
Thanks in advance.

[steve]

No that feature cannot be turned off, though as you are aware there are many ways to avoid it.

[Gale Andrews]

My workaround is to drag towards the split line.

I do think we ought to have some answer to this - for example it makes it too hard to add a point label at the split line.

• We could compel use of right-click to merge the split line, and left click snaps to the split line if the click is close enough. The right-click could open a context menu or not.
• We could add shortcuts to move left to nearest clip boundary and right to nearest clip boundary. You can do it now by double-clicking in the clip then using LEFT or RIGHT arrow.

Other ideas? Meantime I moved this to "Adding Features".


Gale

[steve]

for example it makes it too hard to add a point label at the split line.

Not the case if a label track exists.
If a label track does not exist, then you only need to create a label track.

We could compel use of right-click to merge the split line, and left click snaps to the split line if the click is close enough. The right-click could open a context menu or not.

A significant regression for anyone that frequently uses left click to join.
Why not use right click for the new behaviour, (assuming a reasonable level of demand for the new feature)?

We could add shortcuts to move left to nearest clip boundary and right to nearest clip boundary

I quite like the idea of stepping left / right to the previous / next clip boundary.
I think that it would be reasonable to use the same shortcut in label tracks to move to the previous / next label boundary.

[billw58]

We could add shortcuts to move left to nearest clip boundary and right to nearest clip boundary. You can do it now by double-clicking in the clip then using LEFT or RIGHT arrow.

Wow, that brought back memories:

http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic ... 023#p49023

-- Bill

[Gale Andrews]

for example it makes it too hard to add a point label at the split line.

Not the case if a label track exists.
If a label track does not exist, then you only need to create a label track.

That is still not intuitive in my opinion. The only way I know to proceed from there is to click in the label track immediately below the split line. If you click close enough, the click will snap underneath the split line and the yellow boundary snap guide will display.

We could compel use of right-click to merge the split line, and left click snaps to the split line if the click is close enough. The right-click could open a context menu or not.

A significant regression for anyone that frequently uses left click to join.

That might be a good regression. Do many users frequently use left click to join? I find that behaviour unintuitive and a frequent source of complaint. We could have a new feature - click a label boundary to delete the label - same principle but fortunately no-one has suggested it.

Why not use right click for the new behaviour, (assuming a reasonable level of demand for the new feature)?

I agree it's not ideal to move an existing feature to another mechanism, but I'm assuming left click on the split line in the waveform to snap to the split line would be much more useful than left click to delete the split line.

Alternatively, only delete the split line when you hover at top and bottom of the line. When you do that, the mouse pointer changes to an [X] or something similar.

We could add shortcuts to move left to nearest clip boundary and right to nearest clip boundary

I quite like the idea of stepping left / right to the previous / next clip boundary.
I think that it would be reasonable to use the same shortcut in label tracks to move to the previous / next label boundary.

The analogy is less clear when there are region labels. If the cursor is inside a region label, does the "previous" shortcut move to the left boundary of that region label, or to the right or left boundary of the previous region label?

Gale

[billw58]

About click-to-join:
I regularly curse when I inadvertently join at a clip boundary when I meant to select. I've learned to watch for the cursor change to an arrow, but sometimes I work just a little too fast. Yes, Undo is your friend in this situation.
And, yes, I've learned to do what Gale does: select in the middle then shift-drag to the edge, or double-click the clip to select it then left or right arrow to go to the clip boundary. Ick.
My feeling is users will more often want to select than join, so the default behaviour should be join. I'd support Alt-click to join, or right-click, or just about anything as long as left-click always meant "select".

About moving the cursor within/between clips:
When the cursor is in a track, TAB moves forward to next clip boundary, SHIFT-TAB moves back to previous clip boundary.
If the cursor is inside a clip, SHIFT-TAB moves to the start of the clip (previous clip boundary). Another SHIFT-TAB moves to the start of the previous clip (previous clip boundary).
Simple, and follows label track behaviour (but is not identical, of course).

-- Bill

[steve]

for example it makes it too hard to add a point label at the split line.

Not the case if a label track exists.
If a label track does not exist, then you only need to create a label track.

That is still not intuitive in my opinion.

It's not documented anywhere as far as I'm aware. It was so obvious for me that I hadn't given it a second thought, so I guess that it must be intuitive for some people - I don't think I'm that unique

Do many users frequently use left click to join?

I use it very frequently.

I find that behaviour unintuitive and a frequent source of complaint

Those that don't have a problem with it will not complain.

Yes it is a slight irritation if you accidentally click on a split line, but with Ctrl+Z any such slips are easily rectified. It's also an irritation if you accidentally click a "Cancel" button rather than an "OK" button (something I regularly do on Windows), but really it's just "operator error" and something that I would get used to if I used Windows more often. We also get complaints that clicking in the Timeline starts playback rather than creating a "marker" (as happens in some other programs) and I'm sure that is irritating for them until they get used to it.

Personally I find that "left click to join a split line" works very well. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[steve]

The analogy is less clear when there are region labels. If the cursor is inside a region label, does the "previous" shortcut move to the left boundary of that region label, or to the right or left boundary of the previous region label?

For audio clips - move to the next / previous clip boundary (may be the start or end of a clip). In the case of "split lines" the audio clips are touching, so that counts as one "boundary".

For labels, move to the next / previous label boundary (may be the start or end of a label). In the case or point labels, the start/end of the label are at the same position, so that counts as one "boundary".

About moving the cursor within/between clips:
When the cursor is in a track, TAB moves forward to next clip boundary, SHIFT-TAB moves back to previous clip boundary.
If the cursor is inside a clip, SHIFT-TAB moves to the start of the clip (previous clip boundary). Another SHIFT-TAB moves to the start of the previous clip (previous clip boundary).

Wouldn't it be simpler (and more consistent) if:

In an audio track: "Tab" moves to the next boundary. Shift+Tab move to the previous boundary.
Thus, to move from the start of the next audio clip - if the clips are touching, press "Tab" once. If there is a gap between the clips, "Tab" to the end of the clip, then "Tab" again to the start of the next.

In label tracks: When in a label text box (text edit mode), Tab moves to the next label text box (as now). Shift+ Tab moves to the previous label text box (as now).
When not in a label text box (not editing text), Tab moves to the next label "leg" (boundary). Shift+Tab moves to the previous label "leg".
(what do we call them? "legs", "stems", "boundaries"?)

[Gale Andrews]

I don't think I'm that unique

Nah, you're a power power user.

it's just "operator error"

It's about as silly as having an overlapping OK and Cancel button IMO.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

It's clearly broken IMO. The most useful action should be default. It should not be so unintuitive to place the cursor at a split line or create a selection starting there.

Enhancement Issue created: http://bugzilla.audacityteam.org/show_bug.cgi?id=800.



Gale