Default Values

[kozikowski]

I run into this every so often. Today was one of those days.

What are the default Noise Removal settings? I can get there by just clicking on the "[Default]" button, right? Or hold a key like Control while clicking on something?

Or find somebody that hasn't changed their settings on a new Audacity yet...

Another one, slide up and down until the slider changes color, sorry, colour at the default value?

Koz

[steve]

What are the default Noise Removal settings?

The defaults are shown in the manual (Help menu, or here)

Didn't we once have a discussion about adding a mark to the sliders to indicate the default positions?

[kozikowski]

Terrific idea. If we did, anyone remember why it didn't go anywhere? Admittedly, the world will not stop turning without this, but still. It's a relatively uncomplicated graphic goal. It doesn't have to change color or wiggle or flash. Just be.

Koz

[waxcylinder]

Didn't we once have a discussion about adding a mark to the sliders to indicate the default positions?

Yes we did, I remember it but can't find the thread now. I don't think it was an "Adding Features ..." thread as I can't find it on the Wiki>FR or Wiki>PFR

Wiki>PFR has the following related item:
Noise Reduction: Extra button in the Noise Reduction panel: [Factory Default Settings] (plus 1 vote) Ed adds: and if we are adding buttons -- a "Save As Default" one might make sense as well!
Koz adds: "Return To Factory" should always be an option for those of us prone to digging ourselves entertaining holes during production. I think I authored a request to be able to email a noise correction to my sister in Schenectady. So 'beyond here dwells dragons.' (Well then, if you can save a correction.....) I got shot down on a technicality.

The two options would seem to be:

1) some kind of marker to indicate the default setting for options

2) a "Reset to defaults" button in all effects/generators/analysers/etc

And note that 1 and 2 are not mutually exclusive.
I suspect that 2 would be the simpler to implement, but still a fair amount of work (due to the number of: effects/generators/analysers/etc).
No. 1 is likely to involve a lot of discussion as to what form/color/shape/etc such markers would take.

=============================================================

In order to get this implemented the formal route is:
Forum>AFTA => Wiki>PFR => Wiki>FR => Wiki>Proposal ... (and there may be additional discussion on the Quality email list on the way)

An elf or gnome can shorten this process by going straight to: Wiki>Proposal ...

But getting to that stage is no guarantee of getting it implemented, you then need to get a developer interested (or be a developer yourself).

The short(ish) cut to getting developer interest is by getting the issues flagged on Bugzilla as a low-number Px

And in the end it is "doer decides" that is the modus operandi, so the developer may not always deliver what you thought you were asking for

Peter.

[steve]

I suspect that 2 would be the simpler to implement, but still a fair amount of work (due to the number of: effects/generators/analysers/etc).

Not all of the effects/generators/analysers need such a feature:
Amplify always goes to default, as does Normalize, Wah Wah and many others, so really we are only talking about those that save user preferences.

An alternative approach would be to incorporate this feature into the "Proposal Easy cfg Reset" http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Propo ... _cfg_Reset
It could be an option under "What gets reset".

I still think that it would be a good convention for those effects that save user defaults to have either an indication of the factory defaults or a reset button. For sliders controls this could be done unobtrusively with a small change in the GUI, for example:

slider with default marker.png (3.92 KiB) Viewed 7714 times

Another alternative could be a tool tip with the default value.

It could be left up to the developer to decide whether visual markers (which are not accessible), tool tip or a reset button is more appropriate.

[waxcylinder]

Not all of the effects/generators/analysers need such a feature:
Amplify always goes to default, as does Normalize...

True for Amplify - it always goes to a New Peak Amplitude of 0 (but displayed curiously as -0.0)

But Normalize remembers and re-uses the previous value you set for peak amplitude.

And Wahwah seems to remember last used settings - and, like Koz, I've now got no idea of what the defaults are now that I've dragged all the sliders to minimum in aid of testing ...

Peter

[steve]

But Normalize remembers and re-uses the previous value you set for peak amplitude.

Ah yes, you're right there, but do you think that Normalize needs recoverable defaults? The "factory default" is pretty arbitrary, it could just as easily be 0, -0.5, -1, -2, -3 dB or any other preferred value.

And Wahwah seems to remember last used settings

Not after restarting Audacity.
Again, the defaults are quite arbitrary. The default could just as easily be with all controls at the mid position.

I think that where we need a way to recover the default values is in those effects where there are carefully chosen defaults and user settings are written to preferences (so they are retained after a restart). The main example being "Noise Removal".

The Equalization effect already has a partial "Reset" button (the "Flatten" button).

[waxcylinder]

But Normalize remembers and re-uses the previous value you set for peak amplitude.

Ah yes, you're right there, but do you think that Normalize needs recoverable defaults? The "factory default" is pretty arbitrary, it could just as easily be 0, -0.5, -1, -2, -3 dB or any other preferred value.

Not always so - when Dominic first wrote the Normalize function for Audacity he chose to write it so that it was hardwired to Normalize to -3 dB, there was no option to change that in earlier versions of Audacity. I still Normalize to that level - and I find it plenty loud enough.

I do seem to recall some discussions on one of the email lists (quality, dev or maybe both) before the current defaulut of -1.0 was settled on when Normalize was upgraded recently. We deliberately avoided it being 0.0 to avoid clipping or playback troubles on some players.

And Wahwah seems to remember last used settings

Not after restarting Audacity.
Again, the defaults are quite arbitrary. The default could just as easily be with all controls at the mid position.

So it does, that's a cunning stunt.
How does it manage that

I think that where we need a way to recover the default values is in those effects where there are carefully chosen defaults and user settings are written to preferences (so they are retained after a restart). The main example being "Noise Removal".

Which brings another point to mind. As well as the ability to reset to "OOTB factory defaults", should we also consider letting users set their "personal defaults" which could also be reset too? Such "personal defaults" would presumably need to be stored in Preferences.

Peter

[waxcylinder]

And Wahwah seems to remember last used settings

Not after restarting Audacity.
Again, the defaults are quite arbitrary. The default could just as easily be with all controls at the mid position.

And I note that the Manual doesn't warn you of this slightly odd (and, to me certainly, unexpected) behaviour.

Should we be updating the Manual to explain this?

Do we know if there are other effects that behave like this?

Peter

[waxcylinder]

From looking at the documentation pages in the manual for individual most of them do not seem to either explicitly state what the defaults are (these should always be shown in the image of the dialog box - that is our standard - but we don't tell the reader that.

Further I'd always assumed that all effects unless otherwise stated remembered that last-used values and not the defaults - and once again we do not tell the reader this happens and I think we should.

The one exception I know is the Amplify effect which has no default but always calculates a value to enable maximum amplification as the offered value in its dialog box - and the manual does explain this.

The only effect page that I can see that has any indication that the effect will remember your last-used values is the Normalize effect. And there ii is badly written so as to be ambiguous - it seems to imply that you can change it on first-use of Audacity and henceforth your changed value will always be the default. I plan to re-write this in the coming days.

Do we need to move this slightly OT part of the thread to the Manual/Quality email lists?

Peter.