Adding channel names into OGG files

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Midimaster
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Adding channel names into OGG files

Post by Midimaster » Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:19 pm

I often use the OGG-file to transfer multi-channel (Multi-Tracks) recordings of our band between the musician. This works very good an the size is small.

But a disadvantage is that all channels names are lost, when somebody re-opens this OGG file in AUDACITY again.

Now I think about a kind of "extension" of the ID3-TAG or the VORBIS-COMMENT with a tag "Channelnames=Piano|Guitat|Drum..." and an extension of the Audacity OGG-Export-function to scan all used channels and save their names into this tag. On the IMPORT-function there could be an reading of this tag and re-name the channels.

The ID3 and the VORBIS-COMMENT would allow such a feature, this would not disturb other apps when opening those OGG-file. But AUDACITY could offer this extended feature, when OGG files are exported and imported by AUDACITY only.

This would help a lot.

Does anybody already made experiments with this?

p.s.
please do not write me "that exporting Ogg is never a good idea..." We transfer only slim copies of the original channels for playback reasons. In the final recording we of course use the best quality.
Last edited by Midimaster on Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

steve
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Re: Adding track names into OGG files

Post by steve » Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:20 pm

Audacity already supports adding some Vorbis Comments to exported OGG files: https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/met ... ditor.html
Midimaster wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:19 pm
please do not write me "that exporting Ogg is never a good idea..."
Ogg is an excellent choice of format when you need to minimise the file size and don't require "perfect" quality ;)
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Midimaster
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Re: Adding track names into OGG files

Post by Midimaster » Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:58 pm

yes I know, that the meta tag feature is already added to the ogg file and accessable from AUDACITY
Thats why I'm asking!

Is there a chance to automatically add a new tag, and then fill it with the names of the channels (tracks)?

And backwards: Is there a chance to rename the tracks in AUDACITY, if it opens a Ogg-file which contains such a tag?

First I thought about a nyquist tool. But the better solution would be , that AUDACITY would do this by default.
Last edited by Midimaster on Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

steve
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Re: Adding track names into OGG files

Post by steve » Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:07 pm

Audacity can't do that from metadata, but there's something similar with file names:

If you export using "Export Multiple", there's an option to use the track name as the file name.

When importing a file into a new project, the track name is taken from the file name.

Nyquist does not have access to the project metadata, so not much can be done that way.
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Midimaster
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Re: Adding channel names into OGG files

Post by Midimaster » Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:44 am

Is this already a "NO"?

Because of Corona a lot of people transfer multitrack recordings around the world. One of the most conveniant formats is the OGG because it has an acceptable quality and offers a single file for upto 255 tracks.

An export of single tracks to save also the track names is possible, but it is not conveniant. A lot of hobby musicians are not trained in handling Zip-files or importing the tracks into an empty AUDACITY window. They know how to click on a single file and hope that the associated exe would open, thats all
Audacity can't do that from metadata...
The ID3-tags or VORBIS-Tag has been developed as expandable for giving companies the chance to integrate useful extensions. If you reject the idea with the argument, that audacity cannot do that at the moment, why do you offer a feature request? Of course it can be done, everything can be done! Without a little bit of courage we will never have any progress.

These tag have been developed not only for displaying them in a nice box, but for working with them.

AUDACITY could add a new Tag "TrackNames=" followed by the tracks name. This would not break the rules of OGG VORBIS definition, the OGG-files still would run on every other app and the new tag would disturb nobody. But if we open such a file on AUDACITY the track name can be read and used.

And... who knows... perhaps other audio players would follow and accept the tag as a standard approach for intergrating track names into audiofiles. A organisation like AUDACITY hasalso the possblity to contact Xiph.Org for making track names as a standard part of the OGG file. Think big.

Do not just re-act, act!

steve
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Re: Adding channel names into OGG files

Post by steve » Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:04 am

Midimaster wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:44 am
Is this already a "NO"?
No it's not. This is discussion. ;)

The current situation is that Audacity does not have "per track" metadata, only "per project" metadata. That's not carved in stone, but currently there are no developers working in this area. That could change in the future if a developer is interested in working in this area. Audacity is an open source project, so any developer anywhere in the world could develop this feature for Audacity.

We could restrict the scope of this discussion to only the feature request, in which case you either learn how to program in C++ or wait for someone to develop the feature, or we could expand the scope of the discussion to include features that Audacity has now to see if there are practical alternatives that can be used now.

One possible alternative is to share ".aup3" project files.
And... who knows... perhaps other audio players would follow and support playing AUP3 files :D
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Midimaster
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Re: Adding channel names into OGG files

Post by Midimaster » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:15 am

No it's not. This is discussion
That's good to hear this. Your answers here in the feature request often feel like dismissive and uninterested. A little frustating for the inquirer

There would be no need for a per-track meta-data. It could be done with the relugar ID3-tag on "per project"-metadata. I would use a single tag for storing the whole information in the form:

Code: Select all

TrackNames="Piano|Drums|Guitar|..."
by using a seperator which is allowed in the ID3-TAG.
When the user exports the whole song as a multitrack-OGG file a SaveOGG()-function rebuilds the whole String and then replace the old TAG with the new one. As an Epxport already stores the tracks in the same sequence they are listet in the AUDACITY sample window, this simple approach would already correspont.


during loading that audiofile the LoadOGG()-function could search if such an tag is avaiable in the OGG-file and then name the tracks on screen correpsoning to the sequence in the tag


I would do it, if I'm experienced in C++, but my skills are only BlitzMax and B4A, which are both BASIC languages.

And with the AUDACITY script languages MAKRO and NYQUIST it cannot be done, as you told me. So I cannot do it by my own

In total I would think it is not a big thing to code this.
The OGG-file loading is already done
The ID3-Tag is already imported and analysed
The track-names are already named by a DEFAULT NAME function

I already heared about the new SaveProject() in AUDACITY3.0. This also could be a way to easily transfer the whole song as a single file. Bt the size is too big. Saving a project lossless in good for single workplace. But in current practice of sending the whole song around the world as a playback for a new track someones will add its to big.

And sending AUP3 means not to be able to use the file in other software.

what do you think?

steve
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Re: Adding channel names into OGG files

Post by steve » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:28 am

Midimaster wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:15 am
Your answers here in the feature request often feel like dismissive and uninterested. A little frustating for the inquirer
Sorry about that. I'm actually taking the time to write a response because I am interested ;)
(It's very difficult to convey "tone" in written text).

Midimaster wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:15 am
And with the AUDACITY script languages MAKRO and NYQUIST it cannot be done, as you told me.
I think this is somewhere that Audacity falls down. I much prefer general solutions / abilities than features that only benefit specific use cases.
If Nyquist / macro commands had the ability to read / write project metadata, then your specific use case could be done with a plug-in, AND plug-ins for many other use cases could also be written.

Although I rarely use metadata myself, I'm aware that many people do, and have seen several feature request relating to metadata that I think would be be well suited to plug-ins (rather than "imposing" the feature on everyone, whether they need it or not).
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