Improve editing functions

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sync45
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Improve editing functions

Post by sync45 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:22 pm

Audacity 2.2.2 is a fabulous program and is full of all kinds of processing effects that are usually found only in paid software. It's a great post-production tool. However, when it comes to editing functionality, Audacity leaves something to be desired. I do a lot of spoken word editing, which often requires extremely tight cuts, sometimes even between syllables. I miss a simple, clear Marker function (I find Labels awkward to use). I also find the keyboard editing functionality awkward.

As you might have guessed, I've been using Sound Forge 7 for years, mainly because of its editing functionality. If Audacity could or would adopt similar editing features, especially similar keyboard functionality, it would be a clear winner. As it is now, I do my editing on SF, but post-production processing on Audacity. I wish I could do it all on Audacity.

Trebor
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Re: Improve editing functions

Post by Trebor » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:25 am

sync45 wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:22 pm
... I do a lot of spoken word editing, which often requires extremely tight cuts, sometimes even between syllables...
You can zoom-in on the waveform down to individual samples ...
Image
https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/zooming.html

anahuj
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Re: Improve editing functions

Post by anahuj » Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:07 am

Person who started this thread: can you describe step by step what you do in Sound Forge?

I second the need for markers - on top of the waveform part. Some kind of general overlay system, because I would need time-spline curves on top of the spectral display.

Making longer selection in detailed waveform can be tedious. The operation "select between markers" would be much easier.

steve
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Re: Improve editing functions

Post by steve » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:30 am

sync45 wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:22 pm
If Audacity could or would adopt similar editing features, especially similar keyboard functionality, it would be a clear winner.
But some of our users come from Cool Edit pro, or WaveLab, or Gold Wave or ... and they all have their own shortcuts. While adopting Sound Forge's shortcuts may be good for you, if is of no benefit to people that come from other audio editors, and more importantly it would be much worse for people that are familiar with older versions of Audacity.

Note that Audacity's shortcuts can be customised: https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/key ... ences.html

(When I first started using Audacity, I was a big user of Cool Edit Pro. I would frequently curse Audacity for being different to Cool Edit Pro, but as I became more familiar with Audacity I would curse Cool Edit Pro for not being like Audacity :mrgreen: )
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steve
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Re: Improve editing functions

Post by steve » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:33 am

anahuj wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:07 am
The operation "select between markers" would be much easier.
That's rather like using a region label. Click the label's tag and it selects the region.

Audacity's labels are extremely powerful once you get to know them. https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/label_tracks.html
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sync45
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Re: Improve editing functions

Post by sync45 » Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:12 pm

Steve, in particular. My point is not a need for shortcuts, but rather, more practical functionality in using the keyboard for tight edits. It's a challenge to describe, but I'll try. What I miss is an easily dropped marker with a single keyboard button. In SF it's simply and logically "M". This marker is a line which runs vertically through the *entire depth* of the waveform. This makes precise editing easier.

During editing, I would like to be able to select the desired edit with the keyboard. Audacity allows this, but... In SF, this is done with Shift + the left or right arrow keys. Most importantly: The selection can be *undone* by simply going back to the beginning of the edit point using the opposite arrow key. In Audacity, a keyboard selection cannot be undone. If you try going back to undo what you've just defined, Audacity will not do that, but will define the opposite side of the starting point. I say again: once you have defined a selection to edit with the keybaord in Audacity, you cannot undo it. You have to redefine the desired edit and hope you get it right. This is tedious and time-consuming.

I have tried to familiarize myself with Audacity. But when it comes to tight editing, it leaves something to be desired as I said originally. It seems to me that Audacity was not designed with optimal editing functionality in mind.

waxcylinder
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Re: Improve editing functions

Post by waxcylinder » Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:48 pm

sync45 wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:12 pm
My point is ... a challenge to describe, but I'll try. What I miss is an easily dropped marker with a single keyboard button. In SF it's simply and logically "M". This marker is a line which runs vertically through the *entire depth* of the waveform. This makes precise editing easier.
In Audacity
a) Ctrl+B will drop a label at the current cursor position or selection (if a selection you will get a range label)
b) Ctrl+M will drop a point label at the current playback or recording position

Subsequently:
1) clicking to a point label will move the cursor to that label position and put a vertical line through all tracks
2) clicking on a range label will select that range in all tracks

Note that detailed editing may need you to zoom in a fair way to obtain accuracy.

WC
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steve
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Re: Improve editing functions

Post by steve » Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:17 pm

sync45 wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:12 pm
I say again: once you have defined a selection to edit with the keybaord in Audacity, you cannot undo it. You have to redefine the desired edit and hope you get it right. This is tedious and time-consuming.
It's also not true.

Personally I prefer to use a scroll wheel mouse.

"Ctrl + Mouse Wheel" => Zoom in / out
"Click + Drag" => Select
"Shift + Click + Drag" => Adjust whichever end of the selection is closest to the mouse pointer.

From the keyboard, the ends of a selection may be adjusted with:
Ctrl + Left/Right cursor keys
Ctrl + Shift + Left/Right cursor keys
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kozikowski
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Re: Improve editing functions

Post by kozikowski » Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:32 pm

Non-video people will never understand Mark-In and Mark-Out....

Koz

sync45
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Re: Improve editing functions

Post by sync45 » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:02 pm

And I guess non-audio people will never understand our needs. I am a radio journalist. The broadcasting organization I worked for chose Sound Forge because it was considered the easiest software to use for the purpose, i.e. editing radio interviews and programs, sometimes under stressful conditions where time was at a premium. I am now retired from that 32-year career, but I now run my own audio-based website. I'm not into music, nor am I into video. Perhaps this background might help you understand my needs better.

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