Shortcuts with ALT on Mac

[Gale Andrews]

Longer term we're aiming to tidy up our shortcuts and make them more consistent where possible. Can someone confirm if shortcuts with ALT will work on Mac - e.g. Split New (CMND + ALT + I). I presume they won't, because ALT is not a shortcut modifier on Mac. I assume of course that the shortcut appears in the menu as COMMAND+ ALT + I because of the translation from CTRL (as it appears on Windows and Linux) to COMMAND.

Thanks

Gale

[kozikowski]

Tradition has it the Windows Control key worked like the Apple Command (or Apple) key. My Paste command is Apple-V. Alt / Option and Control keys came later and didn't appear on the early keyboards. The control key was a big deal in OS-X because of its UNIX background. When I'm in a "terminal" (UNIX shell), Control-C does exactly what it's supposed to do.

It's a monument to the Apple people that they married the world's most fuzzy-warm operating system with the world's most vicious--and got it all to work with very few problems.

I'll try those commands when I get done putting groceries away and can sit down for a minute. Any particular Audacity version?

Koz

[Gale Andrews]

Tradition has it the Windows Control key worked like the Apple Command (or Apple) key. My Paste command is Apple-V. Alt / Option and Control keys came later and didn't appear on the early keyboards. The control key was a big deal in OS-X because of its UNIX background. When I'm in a "terminal" (UNIX shell), Control-C does exactly what it's supposed to do... Any particular Audacity version?

Thanks, Koz. So it seems Mac people with older keyboard will be denied the ALT shortcuts anyway. If you can try 1.3.6:
http://audacityteam.org/download/beta_mac

that would be better as it has default shortcuts that include ALT.

Gale

[kozikowski]

Actually, this brings up a rather odd problem. I don't actually edit anything in Audacity. Almost everything I use it for is Input/Output. Capture, Export, Playback, and on rare occasion, cutting simple pieces out of a performance or snugging up the ends. I almost never answer editing questions because I have no data there.

But that's OK because 100% of Audacity problems are Input/Output related. "How come I can't email my AUP file to my mum?"

I got that one, but...

"How do I combine two stereo tracks in Audacity so they both play at once?"

I have no clue.

But to business, all the ALT key combinations in 1.3.5 seem to work. ALT-APPLE-K will produce what I'm guessing is a split cut. ALT-APPLE-I produces a second timeline over the original.

Do you have a specific one you want me to check? 1.3.6 might be interesting. I'll have to remove 1.3.5 and install 1.3.6 and hope I don't damage anything.

Koz

[Gale Andrews]

all the ALT key combinations in 1.3.5 seem to work. ALT-APPLE-K will produce what I'm guessing is a split cut. ALT-APPLE-I produces a second timeline over the original.

That's interesting. Both that an ALT shortcut works, which I'd been told they didn't by a couple of people, and that the ALT comes before the "APPLE", (CTRL comes before ALT on the other platforms).

Do you have a specific one you want me to check? 1.3.6 might be interesting. I'll have to remove 1.3.5 and install 1.3.6 and hope I don't damage anything.

If you can try this recent build of 1.3.7 it would help us. It has a new "Contrast" tool under the Analyze menu, which has a shortcut CTRL + ALT + C on the other platforms. So you see it's a new departure to have an effect operated by a shortcut, and until recently the dialogue would not appear after the shortcut was used unless you hit ENTER after the shortcut. Feedback on whether that shortcut works on Mac would be great. Also if you can test adding a custom shortcut with an ALT modifier using the keyboard tab of Preferences, that would be very useful to know. That's another thing people have implied does not work. At present we're very short of anyone to try things out on Mac.



Thanks

Gale

[kozikowski]

I'm willing to do that, but there is one other catch. I'm not running Leopard (OS-X 10.5) anywhere. I have an Intel machine, but it's happily running Tiger (OS-X 10.4), soon to be made even more obsolete with Snow Leopard--64 Bit.

I'm trying to figure out the least painful way to run Leopard on something. Buying the OS license doesn't bother me, but I looked at all the applications I have running on the Intel machine......OMG.


Oh, wait... OS-X will start from a FireWire drive. I wonder if I can install and start 10.5 on one of my large FireWire drives....

Koz

[kozikowski]

Yes, I begin to see what the problem is.

1.3.7 under Tiger 10.4.11. Intel Mac Mini.

"Contrast" invites me to ALT-APPLE-C and that works to bring up the dialog box. But it only works one way. It doesn't toggle. Once the dialog box is on the screen, all I get is that warbly beep.

CONTROL-ALT-C brings up the dialog box and makes it go away. It does toggle.

There are two dialog boxes: a small Contrast Tool Foreground, and a much larger Contrast Analyzer. I can't figure out how to reliably get the smaller one to appear. I think I did it once by restarting Audacity.

Koz

[kozikowski]

I made a shortcut to Export Selection by pressing CONTROL-ALT-E and it works.

Koz

[kozikowski]

My Wireless Apple keyboard has CONTROL, ALT (Option), and APPLE (Command) keys in that order left to right.

It's the same on the Kensington and McAlley third source keyboards.

The 12" PowerBook and much older 12" iBook (they'll both hide behind a sheet of Xerox paper) have a keyboard Function Key first (Fn), then CONTROL, ALT, APPLE.

Many odd things happened then they brought out OS-X. The one-button mouse magically turned into two buttons with a scroll wheel. Because of its UNIX heritage, I believe it will support a three-button mouse like the grown-up machines do.

Koz

[Gale Andrews]

Koz, thanks. I was just typing to you that 1.3.5 and later are fine with OS X 10.4 (or so we think). In fact I suspect Audacity is happier with 10.4 than 10.5 on 32-bit.

<<<"Contrast" invites me to ALT-APPLE-C and that works to bring up the dialog box. But it only works one way. It doesn't toggle. Once the dialog box is on the screen, all I get is that warbly beep.>>>

That part's as (I believe) intended. While the tool is open, the shortcut does nothing. The instructions in the dialogue aren't great but will be replaced (at least for now) with this page:
http://www.eramp.com/WCAG_2_audio_contr ... l_help.htm

<<<CONTROL-ALT-C brings up the dialog box and makes it go away. It does toggle.>>>

Does not do that on Windows - ESC dismisses the dialogue. Now are you saying that you just used CONTROL-ALT-C and that works as well as ALT-APPLE-C to bring up the dialogue, without you doing anything in the Keyboard preferences? (Contrast should not appear in there at present). And is that general, for example to do Edit > Split New can you use either CONTROL-ALT-I (not stated alongside the menu item) or ALT-APPLE-I (which is alongside the menu) with the default keyboard preferences?

Sorry for all the questions but it is helpful.

>>>There are two dialog boxes: a small Contrast Tool Foreground, and a much larger Contrast Analyzer. I can't figure out how to reliably get the smaller one to appear. I think I did it once by restarting Audacity.>>>

The smaller one is just a message box confirming that the foreground has been captured. Once it has been captured, the shortcut will then only bringing up the Contrast dialogue (not the message box) until you restart. Restarting is currently the only way to clear the the boxes, but we'll add some kind of reset button for the dialogue soon.

Thanks

Gale