Export Multiple won't export anything but 16-bit audio

[infinitesymphony]

I recorded a concert at 24-bit/44.1 kHz and I've gone through and labeled all of the track starts and ends. I go to File -> Export Multiple, select "Other uncompressed files," click Options, select "WAV (Microsoft)" and "Signed 24 bit PCM," click OK, click Export, click through the metadata entry screen, and the files export. The problem is that they are exporting as 16-bit files, not 24-bit as selected. I've tried other formats and bit-rates but can get nothing but 16-bit to export. What am I doing wrong?

[steve]

There is a known issue in Audacity 1.3.6:

Export Multiple:
* fails with no export or warning if an empty label is encountered.
* "Other uncompressed files" choice always produces 16-bit PCM audio irrespective of header and encoding chosen in Options.

http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.php? ... otes_1.3.6

I don't think that Audacity 1.3.5 has this problem, so a workaround would be to downgrade to 1.3.5 until the problem is fixed.

By the way, you can bypass the Metadata step by switching it off in Audacities Preferences. (last option in the Import/Export section).

[infinitesymphony]

Thank you for letting me know. I saved the project using version 1.3.6 beta. Am I going to have to redo the entire project in 1.3.5? I tried the stable 1.2.6 release but the project wouldn't open.

Edit: Also, I'm not seeing older versions on SourceFourge (though I may not be looking in the right place). Where can I find them?

[steve]

Audacity 1.2.x will not open projects that have been created or edited in 1.3.x
Audacity 1.3.5 should be able to open your project all right.

Try this link for Audacity 1.3.5
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfile ... _id=597859

I had a few problems with 1.3.5 and found 1.3.4 to be more stable, so if you would prefer to use 1.3.4 you should be able to get it here:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfile ... e_id=50145

[infinitesymphony]

Thanks again, stevethefiddle. You've saved me some work!

I've run into a handful of other minor issues. Labels with non-allowable characters ( / : * ? " < > |) cause the export to fail; correct behavior would be to strip those characters from the labels when the files are saved. One other potentially major issue is that if the audio is not saved with the project and the audio files are moved, Audacity does not prompt to find the missing audio files. I actually went looking for the missing files and it said it couldn't load them because there were no files missing! I had to move the files back to their original locations to finish editing.

It looks like the Normalize feature is still broken... When a stereo pair is selected, who would want each channel individually normalized? It ruins the stereo image. At least Amplify works.

[steve]

Labels with non-allowable characters ( / : * ? " < > |) cause the export to fail; correct behavior would be to strip those characters from the labels when the files are saved.

Or to issue an error/warning, which in Audacity 1.3.5 on Linux it does. Since Export Multiple, by default, is using the label names as the file names, I think that it is fairly obvious that the characters used must be legal file name characters. (what happens if you try to name a file "s?./@^" )

There is however, still an issue on Mac's and Linux where certain legal characters are not always accepted in labels (such as upper case Z) http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.php? ... otes_1.3.6

One other potentially major issue is that if the audio is not saved with the project and the audio files are moved,

This is an issue that the developers have tried to stress over and over again. The form of Audacity project is forever being misunderstood and people wonder why their projects do not work after they have deleted or moved files. It is well documented in both the manual and the Audacity wiki. There is even a pop up Welcome message when Audacity is first opened that contains information about what an Audacity project is, and a further pop up message when the project is saved, but people cancel them from appearing without reading them. What are the developers to do? You can lead a horse to water...

It looks like the Normalize feature is still broken... When a stereo pair is selected, who would want each channel individually normalized? It ruins the stereo image. At least Amplify works

We had a long discussion on the forum about this a short while ago, and I for one maintain that Normalise is not broken. If anything, I would say that most other audio programs use a "broken" normalize function in that they only normalize one channel and not the other. Arguments aside, both behaviours are available in Audacity ("Normalize" all channels to the set peak level, and Amplify all channels by a set amount - note that this is consistent whether you select a single stereo track, or multiple tracks).

Also, the stereo image is not "ruined". If your stereo is deliberately out of balance (which in the majority of cases it will not be), the the desired stereo balance can be very easily returned to the desired position (after normalising) by using the pan slider.

Overall, I think that Audacity is pretty user friendly and the learning curve s not particularly great, but there are still a few bugs in 1.3.x (beta), most of which will hopefully be ironed out by the time that 1.4 is released. There are also a few "quirks" where Audacity does some things a little differently from other programs, some of which can be a little irritating, and other can be incredible useful.

If you look in the forum index, you will see a section for "feature requests". There are some features that can not be included because of licensing restrictions ( http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.php? ... _Implement ), but any other ideas can be posted on that part of the forum. There is also an existing list of requested features on the main Audacity site ( http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.php? ... e_Requests ) that you can vote for. Feature requests on the forum eventually make there way onto that page of the Audacity website after people have had chance to discuss, support, or add to the ideas.

You have probably gathered by now that this is a "user forum" and has no paid staff - it is made up of Audacity users and enthusiasts helping each other out. Feel free to contribute as and where you can.

Steve

[infinitesymphony]

A warning about legal filename characters would do, even if it causes the export process to fail (which is the case now). Some people might not understand why it fails because the error message is not specific.

Normalize then pan to reduce volume? That seems like a roundabout and inaccurate way to do it, and the final output would need to be amplified to make up for the volume loss in one channel. Have you recorded a coincident pair (ex. X-Y, Blumlein)? If you turn up one side more than the other, the stereo image will shift. Imagine recording an opera where all of the characters are singing an aria on stage left. Would you really want to amplify the ambience on the empty right side of the stage to compensate? Not to mention that peak normalization doesn't account for the actual RMS volume of a signal--normalizing both sides independently does not necessarily make them equally loud. I can see where independently normalizing channels might be desirable, but perhaps this option could be placed in a selectable checkbox in the Normalize plug-in. It's not immediately clear to a new user that this Normalize is different from the one found in every other audio program. Just one more opinion.

If Audacity doesn't work well when the audio files aren't saved with the project, why make it an option? Other audio editors are kind enough to search for the missing files, where Audacity simply says "things are missing" when the project is loaded. "Would you like to browse for the missing file(s)?" would be a nice option.

Audacity is great, and the fact that it's free is wonderful. It has helped me in a pinch on several occasions. Thanks to the developers for making the program and thanks to you for answering my questions. But there's always room for improvement.

[steve]

Some people might not understand why it fails because the error message is not specific.

I agree, it would help if the error message was more descriptive.

Have you recorded a coincident pair (ex. X-Y, Blumlein)?

Yes, frequently.

If you turn up one side more than the other, the stereo image will shift

Exactly. That's what you want it to do in this case. Well actually, what you would really want to do, is to use the Amplify effect rather than the Normalize effect, but I was just pointing out that if you have amplified one side more than the other by using the Normalize effect, it can be put back to the original balance with the pan slider.

Not to mention that peak normalization doesn't account for the actual RMS volume of a signal--normalizing both sides independently does not necessarily make them equally loud.

There have been a number of requests for an "RMS Normalize" effect (something that is rarely seen in other audio programs). However, even RMS "Normalising" does not necessarily make things sound the same loudness due to differences in perceived loudness according to frequency (loudness is subjective).

An "equal loudness" effect could be interesting and possibly useful.

It's not immediately clear to a new user that this Normalize is different from the one found in every other audio program.

I agree with you on that, though I'm not sure how you would draw peoples attention to it. Any suggestions for how you think the Normalize window should look?

If Audacity doesn't work well when the audio files aren't saved with the project, why make it an option?

Audacity works fine when audio files are not saved with the project, as long as you don't move or delete them. I'm not sure what the current default action is, but there have been a lot of voices saying that the default should be to save all required files within the data folder. I think the main reasons for having an option of not duplicating files into the data folder are speed, and disk space. For people that regularly work on very large files, disk usage would be considerably greater and the time taken to save projects would be considerably longer.

Personally, I think that using the "safe" options of copying all audio data as the default would save a lot of problems. I would rather be telling people how to save disk space and speed up saving projects, than explaining to people why they have lost their project.

Other audio editors are kind enough to search for the missing files, where Audacity simply says "things are missing"

A lot of other programs also say things like "cant find ...."

Audacity is great, and the fact that it's free is wonderful. It has helped me in a pinch on several occasions. Thanks to the developers for making the program and thanks to you for answering my questions. But there's always room for improvement

I couldn't agree more - and thankfully there are people working away making Audacity even better.

[infinitesymphony]

I agree with you on that, though I'm not sure how you would draw peoples attention to it. Any suggestions for how you think the Normalize window should look?

One potential solution would be to combine the Amplify and Normalize functions by adding a checkbox or button that says something like "Link Selected Channels." Unchecked/unpressed would have the functionality of the current Normalize process, checked/pressed would have the functionality of Amplify.