increase latency to reduce mic clipping??

[caroljm36]

Hi, I just started using the Art Dual Pre USB interface with an older laptop to do some simple overdubs of voice on backing tracks. I got it so I could get away from the latency problem and it does that just fine.

I'm using an EV condenser mic and Sennheiser HD280 headphones running off the Dual Pre. BUT I have to turn the mic gain almost all the way up to get a decent strong signal in Audacity, and it always sounds like it's clipping.

Someone at another forum told me I should actually increase latency to reduce the clipping?? using the USB drivers which in this case is just the Windows driver.

Does this make any sense, and how do I do it?

[kozikowski]

I got it so I could get away from the latency problem and it does that just fine.

You can tune out Recording Latency in Audacity 1.3, yes.

Should have your headphones plugged into the Dual Pre and not anywhere else. The Mix knob on the back will share the playback sound from Audacity and your live performance (for overdubbing sync) and the level knob should make it loud enough.

Set Audacity > Recording > [X] Overdub. Deselect any Playthrough settings.

The actual sound level in Audacity should never go all the way to the right on the red sound meters and the blue waves should never go all the way between +1 and -1.

This is what a perfect recording looks like. You should be able to set a perfect recording without hearing it. The two services are separate.

http://kozco.com/tech/audacity/Audacity1_record.jpg

Koz

[steve]

Someone at another forum told me I should actually increase latency to reduce the clipping??

Either they were talking rubbish, or you misunderstood them. Increasing latency will do nothing to reduce clipping. Latency and clipping are unrelated.

Which model "EV condenser mic"?
What are you recording? Speech? How far from the microphone is the "sound source"?
Does it sound like it is "clipping" when you monitor the microphone input (Audacity not running)?

[caroljm36]

Yeah I probably misterpreted these comments:

"You need to read up on recording latency. If its set too low you have dropouts and digital noise...Next you have to increase your latency and buffers within the Drivers for the In.....The symptom of trying to run the latency too low is digital noise on playback."

Kinda puzzling, since the whole point of getting the USB interface was to eliminate latency!

But anyway I'm working with ART support now, and studying the manual PDF, which was printed too small to read comfortably. (All the CD had was the manual and Audacity, and the unit uses the Windows drivers instead.)

It's already working better as I learn to power it up in the proper sequence. It pretty much sets itself when I do it right...think I'll go back to using a dynamic for now.

I don't think I need to send it back. Pretty good deal for $49, for my purposes.

[DVDdoug]

Kinda puzzling, since the whole point of getting the USB interface was to eliminate latency!

USB isn't necessarily low latency. But, if you have a studio or performance mic with an XLR connector it won't interface directly with the computer so you need a mic preamp or some kind of interface.

Pros use ASIO drivers to minimize latency. If the interface manufacturer doesn't supply proper ASIO drivers you can try ASIO4ALL.

Latency is a good thing unless you are monitoring through headphones and the delay makes things difficult.

Really, the best solution is to monitor through an analog set-up so you don't have to wory about delays in the computer.

[caroljm36]

Kinda puzzling, since the whole point of getting the USB interface was to eliminate latency!

USB isn't necessarily low latency. But, if you have a studio or performance mic with an XLR connector it won't interface directly with the computer so you need a mic preamp or some kind of interface.

Pros use ASIO drivers to minimize latency. If the interface manufacturer doesn't supply proper ASIO drivers you can try ASIO4ALL.

Latency is a good thing unless you are monitoring through headphones and the delay makes things difficult.

I am monitoring through headphones and I didn't want the long delay I was getting when I used the headphones output on the laptop.

The ART Dual Pre is a combo USB interface and preamp with phantom power option.

Anyway, I recorded yesterday using an SM 58 instead of the EV PL 84 condenser, and still had to turn the gain nearly all the way up or get in so close to the mic that it distorted, which was happening with the condenser mic too. So maybe the preamp needs a preamp.

I guess I'll just have to get used to it because the level of recording I do does not warrant getting an analog rig. I was just wanting to do some vocal study tapes with backing tracks for pitch reference.

[steve]

Anyway, I recorded yesterday using an SM 58 instead of the EV PL 84 condenser, and still had to turn the gain nearly all the way up or get in so close to the mic that it distorted,

It's virtually impossible to overload a Shure SM58 with the human voice. They are designed to be able to handle extremely loud "Rock Vocals" with the microphone touching the singers lips. If you are hearing distortion, the distortion is coming from somewhere else.

Does it sound like it is "clipping" when you monitor the microphone input with your headphones plugged into the Art Dual Pre (Audacity not running)?

[caroljm36]

Does it sound like it is "clipping" when you monitor the microphone input with your headphones plugged into the Art Dual Pre (Audacity not running)?

That's a good question. It does when it's not recording. But I'll see if I can test it later without Audacity running at all.

Today I had to run it at between 45 and 48 db (which is max), to get any kind of decent signal. This is with the Audacity mic level at half and then at full. When I turn the gain up from zero, I hear and audible jump in volume right around 40 db, not quite a click or a pop, but definitely a clear jump in level.

I think I may have to return the unit.

[kozikowski]

I think you're still talking apples and oranges.

Unplug the headphones and put them in the cupboard. Turn any speakers all the way down. Plug the mic and preamplifier in and make a recording such that the bouncing red sound meters and blue wave look like this.

http://kozco.com/tech/audacity/Audacity1_record.jpg

If you can do that then we need to resolve all your headphone and speaker problems. If you can't do that -- if you can't make it quiet enough or loud enough to bounce the red sound meters exactly there, then yes, you may have broken preamp.

Latency is the amount of time the computer has to "think about" something. When you perform live and the sound is late getting to your headphones, that's the computer processing the sound data. It takes time. That can't be changed without changing the hardware or the software drivers.

The other latency, Recording Latency, affects the match between your performance and the playback you're trying to sing to. You can adjust that error to zero by telling Audacity to play the old track early so it gets to your headphones at the right time. That's the latency setting in Audacity.

I don't know of any distortion you can create by setting the latency wrong.

Koz

[caroljm36]

Koz, my mic level (upper right) looks like the one in the link, but the wave form in the track is thin and wimpy, unless I really overdrive the mic at 48 db. I got a much healthier looking track just recording through the mic jack on the laptop without the USB interface.

There are no speakers running. I don't see why I should go without headphones. I mean I can, but that's kind of a basic advantage of recording, isn't it? I've done some studio work in my life and we always had headsets, and it was marvelous for singing.

Anyway thanks for your help, everyone. I called the vendor to return it, but they told me to keep it and are refunding my money.