Audacity Forum

Hi, first Audacity has been pretty good to me. I really like it and thank you for all the hard word that has clearly been put into it. I sincerely appreciate it. I've been recording records in it for the last year and have learned quite a bit about things I never thought I'd know. Essentially I've been recording in a 24 bit 96 kHz environment. Especially lately, I've now learned on Windows you must use ASIO and things have been going well.

Now onto the bad. Because I did start with older more stable builds (1.3.12-13) I'm not sure where some of my issues are stemming from. First Audacity is crashing a lot more often (ESPECIALLY WHILE SAVING) than I recall with the older builds these last few months. I'm not sure where that's from but my files are becoming more "corrupted" (if you will) the more I work with them.

Sample clip from Al Green's - White Christmas http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?x89fx754b9k0ajf
Sample clip from Motown Christmas http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?qu8nu3wubt82xn7

I've never heard that before. First I thought it was something with the record, went out to another turntable played it everything was fine. Next the soundcard. Rebooted and it was no longer there when recording but my in my saves it was still there. Then I realized that it's happening more often than not after a Audacity crashes. Any files that are open (regardless of if I've made any changes or not are turning out like this. Clearly I've started only having one project open at a time but if I'm 99% of the way done with recording, labeling, repairing, and normalizing for any portion of (or sometimes the entire) project to end up like this is a nightmare.

Is anyone else experiencing this issue? Have any suggestions? I'd love to be able to figure this out so I can avoid re-recording a lot of these records. Thank you for listening.

There is no "ASIO build" of Audacity. We can't ship Audacity with ASIO support due to licensing. and no-one else should be doing so. Did you compile Audacity yourself with ASIO support using Visual Studio? If you obtained an ASIO build somewhere else, could you possibly send me a Private Message about that using the little button underneath my name to right of this message? It could be germane to the problems you are having.

Are you crashing when you export (if so, in WAV. MP3 or what format)? Or are you crashing when saving Audacity projects (.aup)? Are the projects recovering correctly when you restart Audacity?

Do the recordings sound like that Motown Christmas clip before you start editing them? It's unlikely that corruption of that sort would be caused by a data issue in Audacity.

What version of Windows do you have? What sound card and how does it connect to the computer. What ASIO driver is being used?



Gale

I compiled Audacity with ASIO support myself using the guide.

Crashing when saving Audacity projects (.aup). Never during an export that i recall. The projects recover but not correctly. I've seen that menu every once and awhile and I choose keep extra files (I can't remember the post where you said to do so atm, but I'll keep searching)

They only sound like that after I reopen the files. Not during recording. Can't remember if I edited the file at all after first recording but I took a break, reopened Audacity and the whole recording sounded like that.

Windows 7, e-mu 0404USB (externally via USB).

I'm not following you, are you asking me what ASIO SDK I downloaded from Steinberg to compile or what is loading in Audacity?

Cwluc wrote:I compiled Audacity with ASIO support myself using the guide.

Hi Cwluc,

Well done on managing the compilation. I was concerned you may have received an unlicensed build of Audacity. The only restriction on the build you made is that you must only use it for yourself and not publish it anywhere or give it to anyone else.

Sorry the rest of this is long, but more information is needed.

Cwluc wrote: Crashing when saving Audacity projects (.aup). Never during an export that i recall. The projects recover but not correctly. I've seen that menu every once and awhile and I choose keep extra files (I can't remember the post where you said to do so atm, but I'll keep searching)

It is expected that if Audacity crashes and there are unsaved changes in the project, there will be a warning of "inconsistencies". The inconsistencies will be listed if you click Help > Show Log. Ideally you should only see "orphan block files" which would be files for "Undo" which Audacity could not clean up because it did not exit cleanly.

However as we have potential problems with project reopening that could still occur, it is strongly recommended not to delete orphan files and definitely not to delete any missing audio data block files. Do you see any of the symptoms listed in that link? Do orphans or missing files occur even if the project does not crash while saving?

Crash Recovery is normally very reliable, but if the project crashes on save, this may mean that the audio in the project _data folder has been updated for the current project state, but the .aup has not been written, throwing you back on current project data but with an old autosave file (this is a temporary ".aup" file which Audacity uses for Crash Recovery).

• Do you ever see an error about being unable to save the "autosave" file before the project save fails?
• Is there an error accompanying the failure to save/crash?
• Has the .aup file disappeared after the crash?

Also can you attach a log file for any of the projects that recover incorrectly after the crash? This should be the log immediately after reopening the project. To do that, click Help > Show Log, then in the log, click Log > Save... . Attach the log using "Upload attachment" underneath where you post messages.

Cwluc wrote: They only sound like that after I reopen the files. Not during recording. Can't remember if I edited the file at all after first recording but I took a break, reopened Audacity and the whole recording sounded like that.

Does the audio corruption occur if you save the project (File > Save Project) but do not close the project?

Is the likelihood of corruption related to the length of the recording?

Is it possible to have some example data?

1 An example recording (WAV) that got corrupted after reopening the project. If you export a WAV before saving or closing the project, is that WAV OK?

2 A zip of the project .aup file and _data folder in the case of a project where the audio reopens corrupted (with the log file at time of reopening, as above).

The WAV and project don't need to be long providing they demonstrate the problem, but they will probably be too large to attach. You could upload these to a free file transfer service like:
http://www.yousendit.com
http://www.megaupload.com
http://www.sendspace.com

then give us the web address where we can download them.

Cwluc wrote: Windows 7, e-mu 0404USB (externally via USB).

Is it possible to make a proportion of recordings using the (non-ASIO) Nightly Build:
http://www.gaclrecords.org.uk/audacity- ... -alpha.zip

so as to eliminate any possibility of the build you made or its ASIO functionality being responsible?

Cwluc wrote: I'm not following you, are you asking me what ASIO SDK I downloaded from Steinberg to compile or what is loading in Audacity?

Could you post a screenshot of the choices you make in Device Toolbar ?


Thanks


Gale

I will try and be more diligent with my error messages. I do see the "Orphan Block File(s)" every once an awhile but I've just click "Continue without deleting" and move on. If there is a next time I will save copy and past the log.

I don't see error messages (or missing files) before or around crashes. Windows pretty much tells me it has crashes and tries to find a way to recover, I click close, reboot the PC and continue on.

I once had (double album) 2 .aup open (sides a-b and sides c-d) I had saved a-b and was recording c-d no changes were made to a-b it was only open but when Audacity crashed saving sides c-d both .aup projects had the corruption on opening.

Unless I fall asleep (rare but I'm human) most of the recordings are an hour or less. So the lengths shouldn't be an issue. I only do one album a project/save. I try to keep them organized.

You asked for examples. I'm not sure how I am able to get WAVs exported before a crash, but I'll try and export more often. When you ask for a zip of the "project .aup file and _data folder" you know we're talking about 1-2GB right? I'm not sure where I'm supposed to be able to host that for free. I'm not unwilling I'm just stating. I do have the "project .aup file and _data folder" that are still corrupted. A couple actually. I haven't made any changes since I saw they were messed up. Do you want me to trim it down to like 30 sec or something?

The whole 16 v 24 bit noise floor issue is the reason why I'm using the ASIO build instead of the stock one. I'm not sure why I would record without it anymore. I could record a couple times but it's not a true 24bit recording so I wouldn't be keeping it.

Cwluc wrote:I once had (double album) 2 .aup open (sides a-b and sides c-d) I had saved a-b and was recording c-d no changes were made to a-b it was only open but when Audacity crashed saving sides c-d both .aup projects had the corruption on opening.

What do you mean by "corruption" in this context? I usually associate that term with silenced audio, that shows corruption in the data structure.

Have any of the other Forum helpers seen reports that audio quality has been corrupted after a crash or after a project save?

Cwluc wrote:I'm not sure how I am able to get WAVs exported before a crash

As you suggest, export frequently. Please see the steps below. But note that Audacity is effectively saving the project in the background with most actions you take, even just clicking somewhere else in the track, before you explicitly do File > Save Project.

Cwluc wrote:When you ask for a zip of the "project .aup file and _data folder" you know we're talking about 1-2GB right? I'm not sure where I'm supposed to be able to host that for free. I'm not unwilling I'm just stating. I do have the "project .aup file and _data folder" that are still corrupted. A couple actually. I haven't made any changes since I saw they were messed up. Do you want me to trim it down to like 30 sec or something?

I have no idea what length you are recording or how many edits you make in a project until you state it, but several GB is not exactly comfortable.

To cover bases, by all means you could trim down a corrupted project to about five minutes. File > Save Project As to a new name, then copy and zip the .aup and _data folder and include the log. I wouldn't expect to see anything in that .aup file or log, but I don't know that.

Cwluc wrote:The whole 16 v 24 bit noise floor issue is the reason why I'm using the ASIO build instead of the stock one. I'm not sure why I would record without it anymore. I could record a couple times but it's not a true 24bit recording so I wouldn't be keeping it.

If you would like to help us investigate this, then I'm afraid it will need some of your time in tests. Some tests at least must be done with the Nightly Build, and therefore non-ASIO, not real 24-bit recording. To avoid huge files and projects It would be best not to view these as recordings that you want to keep, just tests.

1. Launch Audacity afresh. Record whatever you normally record for 5 minutes (or however long you think it may take to reproduce the problem).

2. Stop recording. Export a WAV, saving the WAV (and all subsequent ones) with the step number, time and date in the file name.

3. Make a single edit like a Normalize (or whatever you typically do), then another WAV export.

4. Then do another typical edit and export another WAV. Now save the log with "step 4 and time/date" in the file name.

5. Then File > Save Project (do not close the project). If you can export a WAV (Audacity has not crashed), please export another one. Save the log with "step 5 and time/date" in the file name.

6. File > Exit the project . Copy the .aup and _data folder to a folder with "step 6 and time/date" in the folder name.

7. Relaunch Audacity and open the project. If the audio is now corrupted, make a zip of the .aup, _data folder and the log with with "step 7 and time/date" in the folder name.. Listen to the WAV's you exported in the steps above to determine in which WAV (if any) the corruption started. Include any WAV files that are corrupted in the zip.

Can you also confirm you that up to now, you quit and relaunch Audacity with each new recording? You don't close the track then record again? That is a very bad idea, because at the least you will run out of disk space sooner or later.


Thanks for your help,



Gale

First before we get to your reply (thank you btw) Is it possible that this could be caused by something in Audacity's settings/configuration? For example, if I had a moment and removed everything in "C:Users<Username>Application DataAudacity" and started fresh, would my recordings end up normal again?

Because I installed the normal nightly build and no issues occurred. I got a little upset and started thinking what could be different. The ASIO build was working fine until it started crashing on me and now every recording (sorry had I mentioned that?), every recoding was coming up with that corruption, even without it crashing on me. So I tried to to trim a sample down (again, now happening every time about 15-20 minutes in) and found the file still over a gig and somewhere in my frustration I went to reset the settings.

I'm now recoding again without issue and want to test this for a bit but I didn't want everyone to to not be on the same page. So I'm wondering at the moment is this a fluke or could it possibly have been rooted somewhere in in the configuration? I have recorded 4 albums with ASIO, 2 albums with MME as a test so far without any issue. I will follow your steps verbatim and report back. Although I doubt anything will show up, since I can't seem to be able to reproduce the problem in any build at the moment (yay!)

_______________

I mean that even on first recording the files about 15 minutes in were all ending up with that noise (I called it corruption) I'm not sure what the technical term would be but by the samples I included it wasn't from the original source and it was there in the recoding.

I hadn't seen anyone else with a similar issue in my searches which is why I posted.

I have been saving often and this is from a project that got messed right on first playback after record.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?sm2lhckjf36dvrv (AUP in ZIP, ASIO)
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?c6jr6ngfk1iom9e (Exported WAV, ASIO)

When recording I have learned to keep them as small as possible. Since the idea of recording all these records is in archiving I do one record (both sides) per project. They are usually no more than 2 gb unless they pressed the audio onto the vinyl at it's maximum length. I haven't come across one in awhile but it can't be more than 2.5-3 gb.

I sort of answered this next part in my initial reply. I will get back on that last part to you before I go to sleep.

You don't seem to be saying exactly the same as before. You said above:

They only sound like that after I reopen the files. Not during recording

That part, with that sort of audio quality degradation not in the recording but occurring after editing or project save, is hard to understand.

It would be possible that exiting Audacity then trimming audacity.cfg in the folder you mention so that it only has

NewPrefsInitialized=1

at the top might cure a recording problem, or cure other weird behaviours, or possibly even cure crashes. I would think it highly unlikely a crash would cause audio quality degradation.

If you ran the Nightly and exited, it would automatically change .cfg so that the Host and recording/playback devices were reset to default (as NewPrefsInitialized=1 would do) because Audacity wouldn't see the ASIO host and devices. So you would have to reset Device Toolbar to get ASIO choices again in your build.

If you now believe it is a recording problem and not a problem in Audacity's data handling, the sudden "fix" could be a fluke, or you may have found instability In Audacity's ASIO support or even in the E-MU drivers you have. You could for all I know have needed to reboot the computer, or turn off Windows updates or other processes while recording, or reinstall Windows.

There is nothing to discover in your .aup file (as expected), but thanks anyway.

If the problem starts again, the steps I outlined should give us some facts to go on. It's not unheard of for individual projects to develop problems that may make them crash. In that case you should export as WAV as soon as you can, restart Audacity, import the WAV, save as a new project with a new name, then delete the old project.

It would be unusual for corruption in one project to spread to other projects which were created from WAV's exported from the unstable project. Once again, it is good not to reuse old projects for new recordings (not that I am suggesting you do or did that).


Gale

I can confirm I do now close and relaunch Audacity between each recording. I completed your steps with MME and no errors or crashes occurred at any time. I will keep those steps in mind if this crops up again. For the moment either the problem has hidden itself well again or resetting the config resolved it. Unless there is anything else, I'm going to keep recording, I sincerely thank you for your time.

EDIT: I missed your reply as I was typing/recording your steps. No worries.

At first it was only affecting the files I realized were open (untouched, just open - like double LPs) but after Audacity kept crashing religiously on me (no offense) I started only keeping one project open at the time. At most I only had 2 projects open at a time. Also I never recorded over any projects. I would start a new one every time I started a new record. I did think it was weird that unopened files were being affected but later I realized that every project upon playback was coming with with the issue. Which is where I went and deleted the config praying it might help.

There isn't much to how I configure Audacity so I'll just get in the habit of removing the config anytime I update/swap versions to minimize any unforeseen issues. Unfortunately in my anger I didn't think to make a copy before deleting the config that was most likely giving me issue.

Cwluc wrote:I completed your steps with MME and no errors or crashes occurred at any time.

Was this with the Nightly or your build?

Did the problem stop after deleting the audacity.cfg but before you used the Nightly?

Although I still assume the quality corruption was present in the recordings from the outset (you just never noticed the problem until you reopened the projects) it is definitely wise to keep only one project open at a time while there are still slight question marks over having multiple projects open.

It would be appreciated if you could save a copy of any "audacity.cfg" files that you suspect of causing an issue, but if there are any orphan or missing block files or sequence errors, it will be the .aup file and logs that will be more relevant. Note that if you ever ran a 1.2 version of Audacity on your machine, deleting audacity.cfg (or the whole directory it's in) won't initialise settings. See:
http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/Preferences#stored .



Gale