Application error crashes in Vista

[JohnB]

I use Audacity for my podcast. One thing that I've noticed is that if I use multiple segments (more than 20, I'm guessing) in any given recording, Audacity will eventually generate an application error and crash if I try to play back the audio even if only one segment actually had any audio to be played. I can reload the project, export to WAV, and so forth, but with respect to actually playing back the audio it will crash every time some threshold is reached. Unfortunately, I'm not certain about what that threshold is, whether it's the length of the podcast or the number of segments that I add (I believe that it's the latter), but once it's reached then it's "point of no return" for playback and Audacity will then generate an application error every time.

I'm using the on-board audio of the motherboard (Realtek HD audio chipset). I don't know if that makes any difference. I do know that this happens in both 1.2.6 and 1.3.x.

Has anyone else run into this? Was this issue already posted and I missed it?

Update: I saw the Benchmark function and it said that I can only play 23 or 24 simultaneous tracks at one time. Is this the problem that even though it's only playing one or two tracks with audio that all of the tracks in the project are considered to be "concurrent samples"? If so, then I think that this is a fundamental problem with how Audacity plays back audio. Tracks that do not have any audio data at a certain timecode should not be considered to be "concurrent samples".

[steve]

How much free drive space do you have?
Windows machines should have 10% free drive space at all times and audio at 44100 Hz 16 bit uses around 10 MB per minute. A 60 minute recording will use 600 MB, and if you apply any process to it, (such as amplifying, Equalization, etc.) then it will require another 600 MB for the undo file. The temporary files can grow rapidly to many gigabytes.

Note also that on Vista, system restore can rapidly gobble up huge amounts of your hard drive.

[kozikowski]

You already know the two ends of the variable, right? You have at least one show that does not crash and you have another that you know goes straight into the hamper.

By segments, you mean multiple timelines one atop the other, right? You don't mean pressing pause, turning the page of your script, and then picking up again.

One of the techniques we use when the symptoms don't point to a solution immediately, is to force it to fail. Make a recording with 30 (or so) four-second performances. Then make one long recording many times the length of the one you know failed. See which one-if any-fails.

People always underestimate how much work Audacity is doing in the background. For every activity, there is an UNDO file and captures have to create files and management service all in real time.

There may be an upper limit for number of tracks. I don't know.

Koz

[kozikowski]

<<<The temporary files can grow rapidly to many gigabytes.>>>

Yes, I thought of that. The failure isn't on capture or effects management. It's straight playback.

Koz

[kozikowski]

I know this doesn't mean much, but I just made a recording of 30 stacked top to bottom tracks on my Audacity 1.2.5 on a Mac Mini. I just kept pressing record and stop. Each track is 48000-16 bit and while the machine isn't any too happy about playing them all back in real time, it does work.

So much for the "natural" limit.

What are the chances that your work, when you add up all the capture and management files and associated stuff exceeds 2GB?

Koz

[JohnB]

Okay, for the questions listed above...

How much free drive space do you have?

Plenty. 87 GB free on a 140 GB drive, and I clean it of temporary files and defrag it regularly.

By segments, you mean multiple timelines one atop the other, right?

Correct. For some reason the word "track" just never came to me. (Duh.) On average, each show consists of about 20 tracks of various lengths, usually about 3-4 minutes each, some longer, some shorter obviously. I generally don't pause but instead add another track. It makes it much easier to remove a segment that I feel is not done well, rather than try to find the start point, highlight to end, then delete.

The failure isn't on capture or effects management. It's straight playback.

Exactly. Everything works fine as long as I don't attempt to play the audio back. I've noticed that this problem will almost always occur when the time is more than 60 minutes for the entire show as is more likely to happen if the show is more than 70 minutes. Now, whether that's because of the time or because of the tracks that I use by the time I reach that point, I can't tell.

What are the chances that your work, when you add up all the capture and management files and associated stuff exceeds 2GB?

Highly unlikely. I made sure that I dropped the recording quality to 16-bit, 44KHz, and the temporary directories that hold the raw audio files have yet to go above 800 MB. I probably did my longest show a few episodes ago and that raw data directory is 764 MB with 786 files in it.

[kozikowski]

Shotgun time. Change the temporary directory listed in Audacity Preferences to Something Else, Somewhere Else. It almost doesn't matter where. Just Change Something.

Disconnect the machine from the internet and turn off the Virus Software. That's a favorite problem for the video people.

What else is Windows-Centric that can cause speed problems? It could be a Windows permissions problem, but that would show up right away. What could cause a machine speed decrease when the temporary directory goes over a certain size.....

Other Stuff? Do you leave memory-hungry applications running while you use your machine? Here's a scary one. Do you have any other applications that use a large memory footprint? Photoshop? Video Editing? Have you ever used a memory tester?

http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp

I run this thing overnight and the machine has to do it without crashing.

I'm out of ideas.

Koz

[steve]

scrabbling for ideas here - apart from koz's suggestions there's not a lot comes to mind.
Make sure that you've not got an anti-virus scan kicking in, and temporarily disable all power saving, screen savers, and such like.

[Gale Andrews]

I saw the Benchmark function and it said that I can only play 23 or 24 simultaneous tracks at one time. Is this the problem that even though it's only playing one or two tracks with audio that all of the tracks in the project are considered to be "concurrent samples"? If so, then I think that this is a fundamental problem with how Audacity plays back audio. Tracks that do not have any audio data at a certain timecode should not be considered to be "concurrent samples".

Silent audio does contain samples that have to be calculated - they are there, but just at 0.0. The benchmark test does give you a pretty good idea of your playback tracks limit. But how about using the solo and mute buttons when you can, or playing back only short sections at a time, or other things mentioned here:
http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.php? ... aybackTips

Gale

[JohnB]

Silent audio does contain samples that have to be calculated - they are there, but just at 0.0.

Unfortunately, that to me is indicative of a significant problem. That's like reserving a number of chairs, but when one gets used and is no longer needed you don't release it for someone else to sit in it. And it certainly puts a limitation on those who use Audacity for more than just "click and record".

The benchmark test does give you a pretty good idea of your playback tracks limit. But how about using the solo and mute buttons when you can, or playing back only short sections at a time, or other things mentioned here:
http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.php? ... ckTipsGale

Solo and mute are irrelevant if Audaicty still allocates the track to a single voice, and playing back short sections at a time has nothing to do with this because that's usually all that I do! I'll highlight a small section to make sure that the transition or the overlay is set up properly, but if there more total tracks than there are voices for the sound card, Audacity will crash regardless of the size of the highlighted section.

This whole problem is at this point almost certainly due to a fundamental design "flaw" (for lack of a better term) in Audacity where the number of tracks approaches the number of voices that the sound card can handle even when there is nothing on the track to be played. The number of required voices should be the number of tracks that have active (non-0.0) data, not the total number of tracks.