Audacity Forum

Okay stevo,

After having pretty quick success installing TiMidity with the easy instructions that you posted for me, I then dinked around with it for the last 6 hours or so trying to figure out what seemed to be an inexplicable anomaly after getting two MIDI to WAV file conversions that worked correctly that would play and open and show track data Audacity, but then getting failure after failure after that.

I wrote a huge dissertation initially that I was about to send off to you that explained how I was amazed to get TiMidity to install open and covert files, but then none of those converted WAV files would play any sound or show track data in Audacity.

Then when I was about to send that long reply back to you, I tried playing two of the trial files, that wouldn't play or show data in iTunes or Audacity, in Windows Media Player and they suddenly played... but those two files must have been ones that did work all along and were just mixed in with other test files that would not play that I was gradually tossing out.

To shorten this letter from the three pages that it was, explaining everything that I did right, and everything that was not working and why I seemed to be getting blank WAV files, I'll say that I found there are two things that make the difference between TiMidity producing good WAV files that have sound data and TiMidity producing full size WAV files that do not have any sound data.

1) Just choose "RIFF WAVE file" under output to begin with and don't bother choosing "Windows audio driver" first in order to listen to the MIDI file...

2) Then have your settings in "Config>Preference>Output" chosen before hand, before the file is dropped in to TiMidity, with a destination folder and a generic name for new file conversions like "newSONG.wav" or something like that which can then be later changed on the file itself to match the converted file... these two steps made the difference between getting a lot of blank files with a couple of good ones stuck in the middle to make me think I was loosing it.

Now with your surprisingly easy steps to get TiMidity installed and going, then troubleshooting my internal settings problems, I am getting consistently great sounding, full data WAV files that can then be edited and exported to anything I need from Audacity.

I wonder why the instructions from the authors of TiMidity itself were so convoluted when all it really took was creating that one .cfg file in notepad and downloading the one soundfont file from the URL that you provided me with and then putting them in the right folders at the correct top level of the C drive?

Anyway, thank you so much for making me feel like I'm not quite the dummy that I thought I was and finally getting success with TiMidity... after my failures last week with desktop audio recording, this helps to cushion that series of frustrations.

I owe you a few... if you have any graphics needs that I can cover for you over the internet with photos or whatever, please let me know and we can email or instant message files back and forth for anything that you might need done... photo retouching, graphic design/digital image production or anything like that... even if you need some weird and esoteric sound clips that I now have, just let me know.

Below is an updated attachment of my silly avatar image that expresses the dizzying digital/binary head spin that all of this can put me in... also, I found a recent conversion method for photos that produces some nifty illustration simulations that (after photos have been properly prepped with darkening and over saturating in certain areas) look pretty cool, shown in a couple samples below, so let me know if you need any of that done... it's the least I can do after your generous help.

Thanks again... I'll write back to ask or answer any other follow-up stuff that may apply.

digi

I'm a bit annoyed with you digiday. How could you possibly confuse me with a Mac user? :incredulous: I'm a Linux user (and reluctant Windows user at work). On the other hand, I'm delighted at your success with Timidity and thank you for all of the kind offerings - the dirty dishes are ready in the sink.

digiday wrote: I found there are two things that make the difference between TiMidity producing good WAV files that have sound data and TiMidity producing full size WAV files that do not have any sound data.

1) Just choose "RIFF WAVE file" under output to begin with and don't bother choosing "Windows audio driver" first in order to listen to the MIDI file...

2) Then have your settings in "Config>Preference>Output" chosen before hand, before the file is dropped in to TiMidity, with a destination folder and a generic name for new file conversions like "newSONG.wav" or something like that which can then be later changed on the file itself to match the converted file...

Thanks for that feedback - it looks like a bug in that version of Timidity.

I used Timidity years ago on Windows and loved it - with a good soundfont it can produce fantastic sounding MIDI renders. I don't recall the version that I used back then having that problem. Now that you've got it working, you might like to have a go with some of the other versions of Timidity and see if there is a less buggy one.
There's a list of "recent" versions here: http://timidity.s11.xrea.com/index.en.html#down

If you have access to broadband Internet I'd definitely recommend that you try the Fluid 3 soundfont. Depending on the speed of your computer you may find that Timidity does not play very smoothly for real-time playback with Fluid 3 (though it should work OK on most modern computers), but for rendering to a file it can produce excellent sounds.

digiday wrote:I wonder why the instructions from the authors of TiMidity itself were so convoluted when all it really took was creating that one .cfg file in notepad and downloading the one soundfont file from the URL that you provided me with and then putting them in the right folders at the correct top level of the C drive?

I think there's a number of contributing factors:

• When Timidity was written, soundfonts were in their infancy and not widely available.
• Back in the early '90's the Gravis UltraSound (GUS) sound card was popular with musicians using MIDI, but has since fallen into obscurity.
• Historically, open source software has often lacked good documentation, (though this situation has improved considerably with many open source projects now having excellent documentation and support - in many cases better than their closed source commercial counterparts). Not surprisingly, software developers are more interested in developing the software than in writing documentation for users.
• The set-up that I described in my previous post is just a very basic set-up. There are many more options and configuration possibilities that I have missed out.

Gale Andrews wrote: I followed your instructions OK on Windows 7 x64 (there doesn't seem to be a 64-bit Windows binary, but the 32-bit one you linked to is fine for 64-bit). I added a few tweaks for your steps, plus an alert for that stupid (Windows only?) Timidity problem that File > Open doesn't let you hear (and so render) the MIDI.

Thanks Gale. I only tested Timidity briefly on Windows.
There's probably a better (more reliable) Windows version of Timidity than the "latest" SVN version, but I've not researched it. There's also a lot more options that can be used with Timidity for improving playback, such as customising the soundfonts so that the best sounds from different soundfonts can be used for different instruments. I wonder if there's still an active "Timidity Users" group somewhere on the Internet?

On Ubuntu, Timidity is available from the repository and is installed and configured complete with a working soundfont. The default graphical interface is a bit buggy, but the optional GTK interface works well.
To launch the GTK interface on Linux use: and for a full list of commands use:

Hi Steve,

I'll be over later to do your dishes... just leave 'em in the sink.

Well, you said you used Mac too... I like it when someone works the word "incredulous" in to a conversation and I am the intended offending subject... when someone talks about how they are a Linux user, it reminds me how many other things are out there besides my little Mac and Windows OSs, and I end-up feeling primitive and lacking in social computer OS skills... psych!... not really.

Wow, your responses are becoming almost as long as some of mine!... not really... one-third of your last post was quoting my previous post anyway, so that doesn't count.

TiMidity is working very well now and it produces a very good quality WAV file that sounds as good as the original MIDI, on my speakers anyway... it's funny how you can hear the echo reverberate for just a second when you stop a MIDI file since it is actually playing digital instruments that are already on your computer... but not the case, of course, when you stop the converted WAV file or MP3 file since those are actually sound files and not "digital studio musicians" or "digi session musicians" like MIDI files are... sort of like the roll of paper on a player piano.
(Well, after turning up the volume and listening to the original MIDI and directly comparing it to the clarity and sharpness of the converted WAV and MP3, there is a considerable difference to that of the MIDI quality... it's like being at a musical performance or hearing it from an MP3 through your stereo... but this quality is still very good... would the Fluid 3 soundfont really be that much better?... it's fun to play the MIDI and the converted WAV or MP3 at the same to to get the little reverb effect... I guess I could produce that in a single file via Audacity... I haven't gotten in to that part of Audacity yet... my neighbors love it!)

I found an amazing database of MIDI files, I think indirectly via one of your original links (maybe not) that was provided to me last week when I initially started trying to convert MIDI files... this webpage has a list of groups and MIDI files within each group's link that is a mile long, and this is just the rock section... I haven't even gotten in to the classical MIDI section or the jazz MIDIs...
http://rock.mididb.com/

MIDIs are fun because they are so perfectly cheesy... they all sound like bad Vegas lounge acts without the lyrics... but some of them have pretty good instrumentation and they are perfect for background music in little videos and some email attachments that I'm trying to figure out if the "Send-A-Message" app will work for to attach music files to emails and make them play automatically so I can spam friends and family members.

But with TiMidity, now I've got it fine tuned down to an assembly line process of finding silly/fun MIDI song files, downloading the tiny MIDI files instantaneously, converting them in a few seconds to WAV format, which can then be converted to MP3 files in Audacity, all before the initial MIDI is 20 seconds in to playing through the web browser... this works well when I have TiMidity set-up to convert to a generic file conversion name that I change on the file itself after the quick conversion is handily done in TiMidity... click to choose the MIDI song, click to download the MIDI file instantaneously, click and drag it to TiMidity, click and rename the new WAV file, click and drag that file to Audacity, that converts to MP3, and presto, a folder full of MIDI songs as MP3s.

One thing I realized, not to bypass Audacity since it is great for editing and grabbing pieces of song files, but I could probably take an entire folder full of the converted MIDI to WAV files and batch convert those to MP3 format in WinFF, which I found is pretty nifty for converting huge WMV files to much smaller MPEG video files and to convert M4A audio files from iTunes to MP3 so they will import in to Audacity... Audacity is always in there somewhere, somehow.

Also, converting M4A audio files to MP3 is necessary for music players that will only play normal CDs and MP3 file format, so WinFF is GREAT for that purpose.

My computers and their broadband internet connections would be plenty fast for downloading and using the "Fluid 3" soundfont, but this "8MBGMSFX.SF2" soundfont that you provided me the link to seems to produce excellent quality... I guess maybe one could hear the difference with outrageously high-end audio equipment, but even with my computer plugged in to a very good stereo, the converted WAV and MP3 files sound every bit as good as the original MIDI file did.

Maybe if I turn it up so loud that people on the street six floors below my balcony could dance to my music... then maybe I'd hear the difference... that's a bit of a funny image produced in my mind... sometimes people down on the street just look up and try to figure out where something like "YMCA" is coming from... I love playing that for the native "alternative lifestyle" inhabitants of San Francisco... "not that there's anything wrong with that" (Seinfeld reference).

I suppose if I did want to change to another soundfont, I would just swap it out for the one that is currently in my TiMidity folder that I set up with your easy 3 step instructions last night.

It's interesting the path that a tiny MIDI file takes in this conversion process... for expample, this one file went from a 19.2 KB MIDI file downloaded from the URL above, then to a 21.3 MB WAV file converted in TiMidity, then to a 2.4 MB MP3 file converted through Audacity, then uploaded to TooFiles.com at this link for you to listen to and download to keep if you want...
http://toofiles.com/a/200556.html

and another classic that is funny when heard as MIDI...
http://toofiles.com/a/200494.html

I'm not sure if the Kinks, Van Halen and AC/DC would like these.

So thanks again... those dishes are getting a little smelly, so I'd better get through this broadband internet connection to your place lickety-split... I wonder how long it would take to upload myself to the Audacity forum server and then download to your computer... at least a couple of hours... I think we'd need a faster connection... I downloaded a 2 hour, 1.7 GB movie file from iTunes and it took about 4 hours, but my upload speed is much slower... I wonder how many Gigs the average human being consists of... I'm sure it depends on height and weight.

PS: Speaking of "Lickety-Split"... there is an all female bike messenger service in San Francisco named "Lickety-Split"... my favorite double entendre.

Enjoy,

digi

If you like piano music, try this 25MB soundfont. It contains only piano sounds, but in very high quality. http://www.pianosounds.com/freesoundfont.htm
Then you need to find some really good MIDI files to show it off - try here: http://www.classicalmidiconnection.com/cmc/

Thanks again steve,

That is so cool... an entire database of Classical MIDIs... I was just listening to my first little group of converted MIDIs that I added to a little more last night... it's mind-boggling how many MIDIs are available just on that link that I posted before... I'll have fun getting in to these classical versions.

With this 25 MB soundfont that you've again generously provided me a link to, how is it piano music?... I thought the soundfont was just responsible for converting a MIDI that is placed in TiMidity.

Here is one I converted to WAV and then in a batch process conversion from WAV to MP3 in WinFF with a bunch of others last night...
http://tootiny.net/xerzu4

This one is a great pop-classic from 1978... some of these MIDIs are so unique because they achieve a cheesy and mystical quality at the same time that can't be described unless you hear them... listen to this one and towards the end at 3:16 it goes in to that synth thing that sounds like voices, but is produced from these little digital mimickers... (highly technical description)... this one at the link above is my favorite so far.

Oh, and with reference to that Mac/PC/Linux thing... maybe someday I'll get an extra PC to run and try Linux on... even now, when I'm using the PC, I often feel a religious calling back to my Macs (which I'm using for the photo retouching and graphics work)... and I ask myself, "What would Steve do?"

Anyway, thanks again... just working on some photo restoration that is pretty interesting and listening to cheesy, mystical MIDIs in a new iTunes MIDI/MP3 playlist... talk about a "digi day".

digiday

digiday wrote:With this 25 MB soundfont that you've again generously provided me a link to, how is it piano music?

It's not piano music, it's a piano soundfont. It's a collection of piano samples that are used to synthesize the sound of a piano being played. In a sense the soundfont is a major part of the instrument(s) and the MIDI file is the musical score or piano roll that is played on the instrument.

Hi steve,

So this 25 MB piano soundfont would replace the "system" soundfont and not the soundfont that I placed in TiMidity then, right?

I don't think I'd want to make it so all sounds from a MIDI file wouldn't play on this computer, but I'm sure I could just swap out different sound fonts in the system folder of where ever their default location is, that is if I'm following you correctly.

Really, I'm pretty happy now being able to do what I've been able to do with your help... the real interesting part of the process of setting up TiMidity was creating that CFG file... though it was a simple process because you explained it simply for me, that isn't something that I had ever done before, though I'm a little familiar with code and such within a file since I've been able to hand edit some of my Dreamweaver webpages to place sound links with a cell, combine tables and cells together from different page files and few other little tricks.

But it isn't your average computer user who would be able to understand a CFG file or know what a CFG file even is, let alone create one... I wonder why TiMidity couldn't be created to just have a normal installer... I'm sure that limits its use to people with more knowledge than me, normally... unless they have someone like you to guide them.

I completely get what a MIDI is... I'm getting the use of a soundfont within TiMidity mixed up with the use of a soundfont installed in the computer system... that's where what sounds like the "stupid" digi was coming from in that last question.

One thing is, I really like using iTunes to play music whether on a Mac or a PC since it has an equalizer and one can create any number of pre-set equalizer settings so the varying quality and characteristics of any given MP3, WAV or music file can be compensated for. For example, I have 24 different self created pre-sets made up to choose from in my iTunes, A-X, and that pretty much covers any variation of bad or distorted effects that any sound file can throw at me... all of the pre-sets that came in iTunes sucked, so I just deleted all of them and created all of my own... theoretically, one could have a different custom equalizer preset for each and every song file is their collection, but that would be a bit excessive if one has hundreds or thousands of song files to choose from... so far, 24 pre-set equalizer settings cover it for me.

But I tested it with the same song in MIDI, WAV and MP3 next to each other in iTunes with that Mr. Blue Sky song that I posted the link for, and iTunes has a problem with the volume of the MIDI file itself... not so much the quality of the MIDI playback, but the volume is so low, even with both volume controls within iTunes, the main volume and the volume on the equalizer, turned all the way up, that even with the same pre-set equalizer setting set for the MIDI, the WAV and the MP3 of the same song, the WAV and the MP3 have the MIDI beat for volume and sound quality within iTunes playback.

Actually, I can hear all the clarity and boldness of the MIDI itself when it is played in Windows Media Player, but WMP doesn't have the equalizer and it has inherent problems when it comes to allowing one to put any format audio file in to the same playlist... it even puts M4As in to a separate alternative media playlist, separate from MP3s and won't allow one to have an M4A in the same playlist as an MP3... from what I can see anyway, that is a deal breaker for WMP. Plus, iTunes is just so much better in interface style and functionality with the equalizer, the mini-player option, and simply it's style and elegance of design, as with everything else Apple, it makes allot of other options like WMP, and Windows itself look like a Model T or an Etch-a-Sketch.

One little fun thing that I'm trying now is to blend the same song in MIDI and the original version through Audacity to make it fade back and forth between both versions for a realtime comparison of the MIDI against the original song... it will take some speeding up or slowing down of the pace of the converted MIDI song to make that work... these are important tests in the world of home desktop audio taking place here.

Thanks again so much,

digiday

digiday wrote:So this 25 MB piano soundfont would replace the "system" soundfont and not the soundfont that I placed in TiMidity then, right?

wrong
The 25 MB piano soundfont would be used in Timidity.
You can "install" multiple soundfonts into Timidity in exactly the same way as you installed the "8MBGMSFX.SF2" soundfont. For each soundfont that you put into the C:Timidity++soundfonts folder, create a .CFG file, just like you did for the "8MBGMSFX.SF2" soundfont.

It is not essential that the .CFG file has the same name as its corresponding .SF2 file, but it makes it a lot more simple if you can see at a glance which .CFG file belongs with which .SF2 file. So my recommendation would be that if you put a new soundfont into the C:Timidity++soundfonts folder and it's called "blahblah.sf2", then create a .CFG file and name it "blahblah.cfg". The text inside "blahblah.cfg" would be: To switch from one soundfont to another in Timidity,

• Open Timidity
• Click on "Config (C)" and select "Preferences"
• Click on the "Config File" button and select the .CFG file that corresponds to the soundfont that you want to use.
• Click Apply and OK.
• Load your MIDI file and it should now be rendered using the sounds from the newly loaded soundfont.

Note that the 25 MB Piano soundfont does not include drum sounds, guitar sounds, trumpet sounds or any sounds other than piano sounds. If you attempt to play a MIDI file with the 25 MB Piano soundfont loaded, then the only instrument that will play is the piano and all other instruments will be silent. Obviously many MIDI files will sound rubbish using the 25 MB Piano soundfont, because most of the instruments will not play, but if you have a MIDI file of piano music that only uses the piano sound, then it will sound magnificent.

A "GM" (General Midi) soundfont (such as 8MBGMSFX.SF2) contains a standardised set of 128 instruments plus standard drum kits. Most (but not all) MIDI files are designed to work with the standard GM set of instruments.

digiday wrote:I wonder why TiMidity couldn't be created to just have a normal installer...

On many Linux operating systems it does, but that was not done by the Timidity developers, but by the people that put together the various distributions of Linux. I presume that if Timidity were still being developed today then it would be given a conventional Windows installer. Unfortunately it seems that the development of Timidity was abandoned years ago. However, as Timidity is open source, it would be possible for any enthusiastic programmer to take the existing source code and develop it further.

digiday wrote:not so much the quality of the MIDI playback, but the volume is so low,

By default Timidity is set to play back at 70% Amplification. The setting is in Timidity "Config > Preferences >Misc".
It is set deliberately low as MIDI files that have a lot of instruments playing loudly at the same time could distort if the Amplification were set too high. I've set "Amplification" to 90% and that seems to work OK without distorting, but feel free to experiment.

Of course you can also use Audacity to amplify the sound after the MIDI file has been rendered to an audio file.

Update:
The method described in my last post for changing soundfonts works .... eventually
Unfortunately it seems to take several restarts of Timidity to make the change take effect.

Hi steve,

Okay, I'm following everything you said now except one thing... if the 25 MB soundfont for the piano is placed in the TiMidity folder, how does that make the MIDI files "PLAY" differently on the system, outside of using TiMidity... I can see how that would make the MIDI conversion different, so it only has the superior and magnificent piano sounds within the resulting converted WAV file that TiMidity produced, (or if TiMidity is used for playback) but how would that new soundfont file and CFG file inside of TiMidity make a, for example, Mozart MIDI file sound different when TiMidity isn't open or hasn't converted anything?... like when I'm just playing the MIDI in WMP, or through the web browser when listening to MIDIs from there database site.

Also, I wrote, "...and iTunes has a problem with the volume of the MIDI file itself..."... I wasn't saying that TiMidity plays the MIDI file with no volume... I'm not really using TiMidity for playing MIDI files, just for converting them. I was doing a side by side comparison of the MIDI file, the converted WAV file, and the converted MP3 file within iTunes and I noticed iTunes volume for MIDI playback is low when I was doing the comparison... but I use WMP for raw MIDI file playback tests instead.

And I guess Linux developers or some independent programmer took the TiMidity ball and ran with it with respect to a normal, easy, TiMidity installer... does Linux have allot of other advantages over Mac and PC?... I know it runs all the open source stuff and even some that isn't offered for Mac and PC... it would be interesting to check it out.

Thanks again,

digiday