Audacity Forum

Hi all... here I go again,

Now I'm trying to work with MIDI files... I read that Audacity page about MIDI files ( http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Midi ) and it says that I can cut and paste pieces of MIDI files apart and edit them, but without the ability to play or listen to them in Audacity.

Now, aside from the obvious problem and following questions about that limitation, I thought, "okay, I can listen to them in WMP or QuickTime, make note of how many seconds in to a MIDI song file that I want to cut it, and then edit it in a blind (or deaf) way in Audacity that way... but while Audacity imports and displays a MIDI file, no matter what I do, it doesn't seem to want to cut or trim it in any way... so in reality, Audacity opens a MIDI file to show the little MIDI piano, the little numbers 1-16 colored tabs and the long series of tone annotations in the tracks area, but nothing can be done with it at all.

So I tried "Export MIDI", and it does export MIDI files to something called "Allegro .gro" format, but then nothing can be done with that ".gro" file... then I tried converting both a MIDI and a .gro file in WinFF, which converts anything otherwise, but it gives the command prompt display notation of "Unknown Format" for both the MIDI and the .gro file formats.

So I read on the Audacity page about "Timidity" for converting MIDI files... so I thought great, this will convert them to WAV format so I can then edit the WAV file, essentially a recording of the MIDI, in Audacity.

So I followed the link for "Timidity" from the Audacity page ( http://timidity.s11.xrea.com/index.en.html#down ) and downloaded Timidity from an old page that was last updated in 2004... but I thought, what the heck, Windows 7 runs other apps from circa 2000, so why not Timidity from 2004?... and it just may, but when I opened, unzipped and extracted the Timidity installer files, they didn't work.

So I continued to read the "SETUP.txt" file that is included in the extracted Timidity installer files and it states that "Timidity doesn't work by itself" and goes on to list the many, many other files that one needs to gather from the far reaches of the internet from the bygone era of 2004 and how to configure them before Timidity will work... the paragraph directly below my dissertation here is just the last paragraph from that "SETUP.txt" file that is reiterating that Timidity doesn't work by itself... below that is the entire volume of data that the "SETUP.txt" file contains, making it quite daunting to consider if one will be able to gather all the needed files from all the different internet places that were in existence back in 2004, or before that, and then configure them in such a way that Timidity actually would work.

So I think that this has been another lesson in futility, as was my previous lesson in the two prior days to today when trying to magically gather all of the ferry dust necessary to make streaming desktop audio recording take place in a Doug Henning type way on my desktop, which never happened because obstacle after obstacle kept it from happening... and Doug Henning couldn't make it to my place because he had a prior engagement, in heaven I hope, since he died in the year 2000... I guess he wasn't able to pull off that last big trick.

Maybe now I should call Criss Angel... he's kind of annoying though.

So, is there any alternative to "Timidity" in today's world?... or a way that Audacity actually does at least export MIDI to a usable file format?... not just ".gro" format, which seems to be as useless as the MIDI file and Timidity themselves?

Thanks,
digi

below is the data contained in the "Timidity" "SETUP.txt" file starting with the last paragraph first, then the entire biblical story of what it takes for Timidity to actually be of use... (see if you dare to try to figure it all out.)

"TiMidity doesn't work itself. TiMidity needs GUS/patch set which is
set of sound patch. There are no WAVE information in *.mid file, so
TiMidity use GUS/patch to convert MIDI to WAVE file. Note that this
`patch' means one of the wave sound file in MIDI technical term.

Many GUS/patches are available from the internet. Some people collect
these patches and make a set of the patch for TiMidity. I recommend
the patch of Eric A. Welsh <[email protected]>.

Follows are installation steps to use eawpat for TiMidity++.

1. Visit http://www.stardate.bc.ca/eawpatches/html/default.htm
2. Click "Getting Eawpatches"
3. If you don't have UNRAR, Please install it.
4. Download Eawpats RAR files.
5. Make a new folder `c:timidity' to install Eric patch set.
6. Extract RAR files to `c:timidity'
7. Move all files in this directory to `c:timidity' "

___________________________________________________________________

"TiMidity++ uses Either GUS/patch, or SoundFont(, or both) as the voice
data to play. You must get a SoundFont or GUS/patch files, and make
the configuration file. You must make the configuration file (*.cfg).
By default, timidity.cfg is /usr/local/share/timidity/timidity.cfg (or
C:WINDOWSTIMIDITY.CFG on Windows). And please check the following
sites for many voice(patch) data:

* http://www.onicos.com/staff/iz/timidity/link.html#gus
* http://www.onicos.com/staff/iz/timidity/dist/cfg/ (Some sample *.cfg's)
* http://www.i.h.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~shom/timidity/ (10M and 4M patches)
* ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/gus/sound/patches/files/ (GUS site)

If you got funny voice archive, extract it to appropriate directory
and configure *.cfg files with the name and path of these voice dates.

Console version:
timidity.exe

GUI version:
timw32g.exe
Please edit timpp32g.ini for your preference.

GUI Synthesizer version:
twsyng.exe
Please edit timpp32g.ini for your preference.

GUI Synthesizer Service Mode version:
twsynsrv.exe
Please edit timpp32g.ini for your preference.

======================================================================
Eawpats for TiMidity++
======================================================================

TiMidity doesn't work itself. TiMidity needs GUS/patch set which is
set of sound patch. There are no WAVE information in *.mid file, so
TiMidity use GUS/patch to convert MIDI to WAVE file. Note that this
`patch' means one of the wave sound file in MIDI technical term.

Many GUS/patches are available from the internet. Some people collect
these patches and make a set of the patch for TiMidity. I recommend
the patch of Eric A. Welsh <[email protected]>.

Follows are installation steps to use eawpat for TiMidity++.

1. Visit http://www.stardate.bc.ca/eawpatches/html/default.htm
2. Click "Getting Eawpatches"
3. If you don't have UNRAR, Please install it.
4. Download Eawpats RAR files.
5. Make a new folder `c:timidity' to install Eric patch set.
6. Extract RAR files to `c:timidity'
7. Move all files in this directory to `c:timidity' "

digiday wrote:I read that Audacity page about MIDI files ( http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Midi ) and it says that I can cut and paste pieces of MIDI files apart and edit them
....
so in reality, Audacity opens a MIDI file to show the little MIDI piano, the little numbers 1-16 colored tabs and the long series of tone annotations in the tracks area, but nothing can be done with it at all.

It also says "However this feature is still buggy".
Translation: "don't expect it to work"

There's been a lot of development work done on MIDI in Audacity recently (in the alpha version), but it has also introduced a lot of bugs, so it is currently disabled.
We can possibly look forward to seeing some of these features in beta versions after the release of Audacity 2.0.

digiday wrote:and it does export MIDI files to something called "Allegro .gro" format,

Allegro: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rbd/software/allegro.htm
There should also be an option in the MIDI export dialogue to select "MIDI file (*.MID)"

digiday wrote: "Timidity doesn't work by itself"

If I recall correctly, the only thing that the Windows version of Timidity requires is a sound font bank.
"Gus" files may be difficult to get hold of these days, but there are thousands of free "SoundFont" banks available on the Internet. Some of theme are extremely good.
I used Timidity a lot back in my Windows days, (and loved it) but that was a long time ago. It's a real shame if it does not work on Windows 7.

digiday wrote:"Timidity" in today's world?...

Timidity works on Windows XP for sure.
Doesn't Windows 7 have some kind of Virtual XP built in?

The technology used by Timidity is called "MIDI Rendering". There are quite a few modern "soundfont" players available, though usually they require a VSTi host program such as Cubase, Sonar, Reason, Logic,....
For Linux there is QSynth, which in the soundfont rendering world is probably at the top of the pile.

I think WinAmp may be able to render MIDI files by setting the output to "diskwriter" and then playing the MIDI file.

Re. the Timidity instructions.
From what I remember, the reality is less frightening.
Install Timidity.
Download a "GM" sound font (they are often in plain old ZIP files) and unzip it to your hard drive.
Add the path to your soundfont file to the c:timiditysoundfnt.cfg file (soundfnt.cfg can be edited in Notepad).
and that's about it.


Just noticed that there's a 2010 version of Timidity here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/timidit ... 2B%2B-CVS/

Hi Steve,

Whew, I feel better.

I read all that stuff... it sounds like you may have written that original "SETUP.txt" file thing that came with the old Timidity.

Bypassing all of the tempting material to review that you wrote... will the new Timidity that you provided the link for at the end work by itself, or are there ten other various unpronounceable things to find, download and configure along with it?

Thanks,

ĐĬĜĬĐ₳¥

Nice short answer: No idea. I just stumbled across it when looking for the instructions.
Next time that I get chance on a Windows machine I'll take a look (if I remember )

Thanks Steve,

I have Macs too, but I thought all of this audio editing, recording and format conversion stuff was supposed to be easier (or possible) on a PC, so that's why I've been installing all of this software on my PC... is this easier somehow on a Mac?... I'd hate to think that all of the time I've spent wrestling with these issues could have been avoided if I was doing this on one of my Macs.

Thanks,

ĐĬĜĬĐ₳¥

Macs are widely used for music.
Audacity runs on Mac OS X.
There's also Garageband.

If you're ready with your credit card, Logic and Sibelius are also popular.
ProTools is also commonly run on Macs.

but before you get upset, a quick glance at the Mac parts of the forum will reassure you that Macs are not without issues.

Hi steve,

Yah, I have an old verison of Garage Band 1 on one of my Macs, and I use to do some basic audio editing in Final Cut Express, version something or other... I decided to start the audio thing again on this PC after using Windows Live Movie Maker, CamStudio and a couple of other pieces of audio/video software... the Photoshop and GIMP are on the Macs.

And I don't get mad, I get even... with my PC... it now looks as if it has been on the WWE on the Spike Channel... or is that WWF... or WWII... not sure since I don't watch it... you know, where two buffed-up fighters in swimming trunks end up looking like angry gay Svengali lovers in a round cage?

I'll just have to try out the new TiMidity... with a capital M that I've been forgetting... to see how many additional abstractly named little bits and pieces from across the internet that it needs to run.

And my debit card is so thin that it blew away in the wind like dandelion spores.

Thanks again,

ĐĬĜĬĐ₳¥

Hello again steve, or anyone out there who knows about TiMidity...

Well, I have looked a bit more in to TiMidity and posted a question about it on the ScummVM forum after I Googled "TiMidity", but I'm not sure if I'll get a response because ScummVM seems to be a gamer's forum site.

I'm beginning to figure that TiMidity is a mythical application that people only talk about using so they sound like experts, and a dummy set of files is out there for downloading to make people like me feel even more like a dummy than they do... I've typed the word "TiMidity" so many times now, I'm weary of that capital M in the middle since spell check doesn't recognize it... and if one does a Google search on Timidity, half of the results are on articles about how to overcome shyness.

I have downloaded the newest version of TiMidity from the URL that you provided for me, though I believe that this is the same version that I had downloaded from the link within Audacity that originally referred me to TiMidity... it is version 2.13.2 and it is dated 3/01/2004, and after looking at the files and reading the "SETUP.txt" file which is the "TiMidity++ Installation guide" I still can't quite figure out where to get all of the necessary files to make TiMidity work.

The very first URL that is provided in this installation guide is one of the URLs to download a very necessary file... but http://www.stardate.bc.ca/eawpatches/html/default.htm is a dead URL, so it seems that it would be nearly impossible to configure TiMidity without this first necessary "Eawpatch" file.

There is an email address included in this installation guide <[email protected]> but it is to a Japanese email address so I'm not sure how successful I will be at getting any advice from the person who wrote this installation guide to begin with, especially since it seems that one must find so many files from across the internet to make TiMidity run.

Based on experience, can someone out there tell me how to make Timidity work and how to gather the necessary files to make it work... or better yet, is there a way that I could somehow get the files from someone out there that may have already gathered them to make TiMidity run?

All I'm trying to do is to use TiMidity to convert MIDI files to another audio format that can be edited in Audacity.

Or is there another app out there that can convert MIDI to anything else that can be recognized my Audacity?

I sure appreciate it...

Thanks,

digiday

See here: http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic ... 07#p124407