Audacity Forum

Hi Audacity experts,

I, like many others, would like to record a streaming radio show broadcast for later listening that is not available as a Podcast.

I have explored about all of the links in the help, tutorials, quick start guide, wiki page, forums "Click here before posting" links and done searches on this subject and I'm still not able to get Audacity v1.3.12 beta to show a recording device in the "Prefs>Devices>Recording Device" drop down menu... it still says "No Devices Found".

I've read all of the info about various settings, variations on sound drivers and sound cards, line-out to line-in patch cables, etc.

I'm a new Audacity user, but I'm pretty adept with new software, and within an hour of downloading and installing Audacity v1.3.12 on this Windows 7 ULT machine, I was able to import 3 different sound files, edit them down to the 3 segments that I wanted to combine, and adjust the volume on one part of my new compilation of segments, combine them and export to various final files sizes of mp3s after downloading and installing the LAME encoder... so I'm not completely dumb when it comes to this stuff... and Audacity seems great to me.

But I'm still not able to set things to allow me to record desktop sound based on everything that I have read. One thing is that the stock "High Definition Audio Device" driver in Windows 7 ULT is not a Realtek driver any longer... it is a Microsoft v6.1.7600.16385 (win 7_rtm.090713-1255) audio driver, as described in the driver properties panel... it is dated 7/13/2009, though this was a fresh copy of Windows 7 ULT when it was installed with a clean installation only about three months ago in mid-October.

Changing or updating the audio driver to a Realtek driver is not an option based on a terrible experience that I had with Realtek in September when Windows auto update installed a new Realtek audio driver in Vista and the sound was never to return with literally weeks and weeks of troubleshooting, re-installing the audio driver, 60 or so hours on the phone with MS tech support and continued failures with updating everything and anything in a suicidal Vista OS... finally, thankfully, Microsoft provided a gratis copy of Windows 7 ULT after everything that I went through... now I have a very stable, clean Windows computer that is as stable as an Egyptian pyramid and as clean as a freshly shower virgin princess... and it never crashes, not even once in almost 3 months of continued use and installations.

So after all the hassle, and terrible experiences with Realtek tech support, I can't change the audio driver in this computer for fear of never getting any sound back.

I've checked the audio mixer in my Windows 7 ULT and there is nothing called "stereo mixer" nor a little wrench icon that allows me to change any other settings... I clicked on the speaker icon in the system mixer but that just takes me to speaker properties and nothing to do with audio device choices for the system.

On the Audacity webpage titled "Mixer toolbar issues" and elsewhere, there are continuous references to the "Audio I/O tab of Audacity Preferences (Devices tab in Audacity Beta 1.3.9 or later)" that I'm figuring is where the root of this dilemma is... I've tried every conceivable combination of settings... with "MME" in the "Host" dropdown menu and "Speakers (High Definition Audio)" in the "Device" dropdown menu, NOT with "Microsoft Sound Mapper - Output" (which the Audacity webpages explicitly said not to use) and with "Windows DirectSound" in the "Host" dropdown menu in combination with "Primary Sound Driver" or with "Speakers (High Definition Audio Device)", I still have "No devices found" in the "Device" dropdown menu.

On the Audacity webpage titled "Recording audio playing on the computer" it says, "...use the appropriate "stereo mix" or similar input source on the Audacity Mixer Toolbar dropdown selector. Note: on Windows Vista and Windows 7, you must choose the appropriate Recording Device at Edit > Preferences > Audio I/O (or Edit > Preferences > Devices in the current Beta version). If you have problems, use the Windows Control Panel to enable and select the correct source or device - see especially the green panel "HELP ON RECORDING COMPUTER PLAYBACK OR STREAMING AUDIO" in that section."

So it says to "use the Windows Control Panel to enable and select the correct source or device - see especially the green panel "HELP ON RECORDING COMPUTER PLAYBACK OR STREAMING AUDIO" in that section."

What "GREEN PANEL" that says "HELP ON RECORDING COMPUTER PLAYBACK OR STREAMING AUDIO" in what section?... I don't think it means that there is a green panel in the Windows system Control Panel (though the way that it is phrased it appears that way)... the only thing that I can find is "Sound" and the recording tab in the Control Panel which only has choices for two line-in mics and a line-in jack... where is this, "HELP ON RECORDING COMPUTER PLAYBACK OR STREAMING AUDIO" on a "GREEN PANEL"?.

So to finalize and clarify my question, where is this "GREEN PANEL" and where does it say "HELP ON RECORDING COMPUTER PLAYBACK OR STREAMING AUDIO"?... is this supposed to be somewhere in one of the Audacity tutorials?

Please give me some guidance with this issue and advice on where this "GREEN PANEL" is.

PS: Here are all of the links to all of the Audacity tutorials and data pages that I poured over trying to figure this out...

Recording audio playing on the computer - Audacity Wiki
http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Recor ... e_computer

Help talk:Contents - Audacity Wiki
http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Help_talk:Contents

Audacity Forum • View forum - Click here before posting
http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewforum.php?f=37

Audacity Forum • View topic - Recording in audacity
http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic ... 870#p17870

Audacity Manual
http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/Main_Page

Audacity Wiki
http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Audac ... _Home_Page

Category:Tutorial - Audacity Wiki
<http://wiki.audacityteam.org/index.php?title=Tutorials>

Category:Tips - Audacity Wiki
http://wiki.audacityteam.org/index.php?title=Tips

Category talk:Tutorial - Audacity Wiki
http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Categ ... k:Tutorial

Thanks very much,

digiday

The green panel is here:
http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Mixer ... trol_Panel
which is where you would go if you clicked the Windows Control Panel link in the text you quoted.

That section should point you to a method of recording what's playing on your computer.

If you still have problems, let us know and we will try to help. If you succeed, let us know too.

POL

Hi again,

Attached to this post is a little image collage of my Windows 7 system Control Panels, audio driver panels and Audacity prefs panels that are related to this problem... if anyone can make out what the solution is, I'd sure appreciate it... otherwise it seems that there are so many complications with this feature that it could never work with a current Windows 7 OS.

I'm looking in to Freecoder 4 Toolbar for this purpose since it was recommended on one of the Audacity webpages, but it seems that it may have some of the same limitations, so I would rather stick with Audacity since it works so nicely for audio editing.

Thanks,

digi

The screenshots are useful, but we also need to know what you did to try to enable recording.

So, have you gone through the steps in the page I linked to in my last post? i.e.
1. Have you right-clicked in the Recording tab of the Sound window (the top left in your collage) and ticked "Show disabled devices" and Show disconnected devices"?

2. If you have, and Stereo Mix is not available, then you need to look at updating the drivers for your sound card. The sound card or motherboard manufacturer's web site may have a later driver available, and it may support Stereo Mix. Did you read this page
http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Updat ... ce_Drivers
which was linked to in the green panel you were looking for in your previous post?

3. If that doesn't work, and your computer has a line-in jack, you can use a loopback cable. However, if it is a laptop, it may not have a line-in jack. What is the make and model of your computer, and what inputs are there on the sound card?

Let us know where you've got to with those steps.

POL

Hi Irish,

Yes I did read that... I've read the equivalent of The Bible on this topic...

All of my invisible devices are visible so you an see that they are not there, right?

No little wrench, no "Stereo Mix", no "Wave Out", no "Sum", no "What U Hear" and no "Loopback".

I have right-clicked, left-clicked, single-clicked, double-clicked, clicky-clicked and ticky-ticked.

This is a Dell Inspiron 531... here is a link to a page showing the inputs on the back of the computer (see my behind?)... http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/s ... #wp1121586

See the additionally attached screenshots - 2 of them...

In the 2nd attached screenshot, you can see that the invisible devices are visibly invisible... err... right.

In my original post, I said... "One thing is that the stock "High Definition Audio Device" driver in Windows 7 ULT is not a Realtek driver any longer... it is a Microsoft v6.1.7600.16385 (win 7_rtm.090713-1255) audio driver, as described in the driver properties panel"... so there is apparently no longer a dedicated Realtek audio driver control panel like there was in Vista.

I fear that if I start messing with updating the audio driver(s), then I will completely loose my audio again, as I did back in September when Windows auto update installed a funky Realtek audio driver (update) that ate my sound, digested it and excreted it so that it was irretrievable... dealing with the ding-a-lings at Realtek is something that I never will go through again.

I know that sometimes when one writes allot of info on a topic, it's easy to miss some of that info, but if one leaves out info, then responders say, "what about this?"... so here are a few of the things from my original post...

"My computer is running on Windows 7 ULT and it has a Realtec ALC888 (7.1 Channel audio) sound card in it according to the Dell manual."

"One thing is that the stock "High Definition Audio Device" driver in Windows 7 ULT is not a Realtek driver any longer... it is a Microsoft v6.1.7600.16385 (win 7_rtm.090713-1255) audio driver, as described in the driver properties panel..."

"Changing or updating the audio driver to a Realtek driver is not an option based on a terrible experience that I had with Realtek in September when Windows auto update installed a new Realtek audio driver in Vista and the sound was never to return... "

"I've checked the audio mixer in my Windows 7 ULT and there is nothing called "stereo mixer" nor a little wrench icon that allows me to change any other settings as describe in some of the Audacity online info..."

" ... but the only thing to do with sound in the Windows 7 Control Panel that I can find is "Sound" and the recording tab in that panel only has choices for two line-in mics and a line-in jack."

Any other suggestions?

Thanks a bunch,

digi

Hi guys and dolls,

Well, after being so successful at failing, another source has recommended to try "Virtual Audio Cable", which is reviewed and described on the ad cluttered webpage at this link... http://windows7themes.net/how-to-record ... ows-7.html

This writer does endorse Audacity as well.

A member on my senior staff tells me, "digi's problem stems from the fact that not all of the Realtek chips have the "Stereo Mix" hardware at the chip level. New drivers won't help as the hardware doesn't exist or has been disabled."... isn't that always the problem?... not having "Stereo Mix" hardware at the chip level has been my problem for years... come to think of it, that's why my wife divorced me.

But "Virtual Audio Cable" sounds great, until you read down and find out that you can't hear what you are recording... but how can I record what I'm not hearing if I can't hear what I'm recording? (?)

I mean, how would I know when to click "record" if I can't hear what I want to record?... then how would I know when to click "stop recording"?... it's the old chicken soup and the egg timer thing.

This, like sending sound on an email, has become like curing cancer as far as the research goes... and I'm metastisizing fast.

I'm not trying to fly to Jupiter, I'm just trying to get to the Radioshack down the street.

Then if you read further down, you find out that, by testimony of some of the people that used and reviewed Virtual Audio Cable, that while using it, the words, "trial, trial, trial" comes out of your speakers... that sounds pleasant and it wouldn't be annoying at all... I haven't heard that phrase since that southern lynch mob came to get me back in the '80s.

I figure getting an 8 track recorder and putting it next to my speakers will be easier and more efficient... that would be groovy.

I still have a Technics (by Panasonic) cassette deck that I bought when I was 12 in 1974, maybe that'll still work.

Then I could change my fake name to "analog-day".

Thanks again guys/gals... "Keep on Truckin'."

digi

digiday wrote:A member on my senior staff tells me, "digi's problem stems from the fact that not all of the Realtek chips have the "Stereo Mix" hardware at the chip level. New drivers won't help as the hardware doesn't exist or has been disabled."... isn't that always the problem?... not having "Stereo Mix" hardware at the chip level has been my problem for years...

Yup, youv'e run into the brick wall created by many hardware manufacturers. Removing the abilty to record "Streaming Audio" or "What-u-hear" is an attempt to prevent piracy.

But lost brick walls it can usually be gotten around. There are software packages that can help as you have already discovered (there are others that you should be able to find and they may work better for you - IIRC Total Recorder has been recommended in the past) - you can do it with hardware too of course. One possibilty is to play on one PC and ffe that signal to a second PC to record (expensive and messy). What I used to do on my older desktop was to loopback the outputs to the inputs on my external soundcard with a pair of RCA leadsand adjust my Audacity settings accordingly and that worked fine for streaming audio.

Curiously my newer laptop from the same manufacturer records streaming audio fine wih no fiddling. So I usually leave the laptop set up for streaming and my desktop with external soundcard for LP conversions and FM capture. When buying a new PC it's probably worth try-before-buy (if you can) to ascertain if there is the ability to record streaming audio or not.

WC

I think we can all feel your frustration at repeatedly hitting a brick wall.
Often the problem of "no stereo mix" is due to the sound card drivers not providing that feature, though I have read (but not yet confirmed) that stereo mix is disabled in the hardware as you have said. To try and avoid more unnecessary collisions with the wall it's probably the best bet to assume that this is the case with your sound card.

As waxcylinder has said, if there's no door, window or crack in the wall that we can get through, then we'll need to go round, over or under the wall.

Here's a list of options with comments:

Total Recorder:
A recording program that uses a "virtual sound card". This should allow you to record "Stereo Mix" because it can use it's own virtual sound card (which does support stereo mix) rather than the computers physical sound card (which doesn't). Disadvantages - it's not free, though at $18 US it's unlikely to break the bank and there is a trial version that will allow you to check that it suits your needs before paying anything. I've not used this program myself but from what I've read I think that it should be able to do the job. Once you have the recording you can use Audacity for editing it.

Virtual Audio Cable:
Uses similar technology to Total Recorder. I tried this out many years ago - it worked and enabled recording in Audacity but was difficult to set up correctly. Paying money for the full version removes the cheerful "trial, trial, trial" backing vocals.

Freecoder 4 Toolbar:
Again uses similar technology. Advantages - it's "free". Disadvantages - it's not very flexible and contains shed loads of adware that can be difficult to remove, even after uninstalling it. I tried this program once and instantly hated it (personal opinion only).

Loopback Connector:
A very simple solution that works and is very inexpensive. All you need is to connect a stereo audio cable with stereo mini-jacks on each end. Plug one end into the Line-in connector (blue) and the other end into the Line-out connector (green). Advantages, costs about $1 (you may already have a suitable cable), is very simple and usually works well. Disadvantages, you can't hear what you are recording.
In order to hear what you are recording you need to use a special "splitter" cable. This is simply a cable that has 3 ends with stereo connectors on each end. Unfortunately these cables can be difficult to buy, but if you can use a soldering iron, or know someone that can, it is easy to make one. This cable will allow you to connect the computer line-out to the computer line-in, and connect the computer line-out to your speakers at the same time (so you can hear what you are recording. If you need details of how to make such a cable, please ask.

USB sound card:
A simple hardware solution. Many USB sound cards have a headphone socket as well as line-in and line-out sockets. An example of a suitable USB sound card is the inexpensive Behringer UCA 202. To record "stereo mix" you need to use a loopback cable (a standard stereo cable) to connect the line-out to the line-in sockets on the sound card. Because it also has a headphone socket you can listen in to the recording through the headphone socket. This solution has the additional advantage that you get a better sound card than the built-in computer sound card which will benefit the quality of your recordings form other sources, such as from cassette players, mixing desks and so on. A similar, but probably better sound card (and a bit more money) is the Edirol UA1-EX (Waxcylinder has one of these and rates it highly) - this model has now been superseded by the Cakewalk UA-1G which should be very similar. Other similar sound cards are available, but you need one that has Line-in, Line-out and a headphone socket.

Other options (that I doubt that you would want):
Upgrade the internal sound card with another internal sound card, ensuring that it is one that has drivers for your operating system that support Stereo Mix.
Install Linux (either to replace Windows or as a "dual boot" set-up. (probably more complex than you want to go, but you could try out Linux using a "Live CD" https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCD )
Get a new computer that has Stereo Mix available.
Buy a hardware recorder and record from the Line out.

There may be other options, but I think that's a reasonable selection.
If you want an inexpensive option, then go for the (modified) loopback connector.
If you want to treat yourself to a new sound card, then a USB option is probably the easiest.
If you don't want to be messing with additional hardware, then Total Recorder is probably worth a try.

Hi wax and Steve... (sounds sort of like an adult feature)

I've hit the "brick wall" so many times on this topic that I have mortar in my large intestine... and I love cliche analogies... people who use cliche analogies to describe everything are like, well, never mind... that would be another analogy.

And wasn't "Total Recorder" a bad movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger?... like any movie with him in it was good (with the exceptions of Terminator 1 and 2)... he's perfect as a robot because he doesn't have to act for that role... like he ever could act... "Ill be buck"... quoting da formu failed Governator of Caleeforneea.

I like the solution of buying another computer so I can "ffe" the signal of radio shows from iTunes broadcasts back in to my first computer... that is logical since I'm trying to troubleshoot an issue with free software... besides, fefe was a girl that I knew in France back in my college days and I haven't heard from her in years and years. Or I could buy a new house with a recording studio and I'm sure I'd be able to fix this issue with Audacity and my computer that way.

I could use the method looping-back the outputs in to the inputs on the back of my computer, but I fear that I'd end up with my video signal coming out of my speakers, and I couldn't stand to hear my family photos talking to me through the audio... I get enough of that during the holidays.

It sounds like wax has perfected his/her pirating techniques with the combination of laptop and desktop computers... I think we could all take a lesson from wax... and I'm sure that if I was shopping for a new computer at Best Buy that they'd allow me to install Audacity to test pirating iTunes radio broadcasts and insert loopback cables in to their display models.

Steve's recycling of the cliche, "brick wall" makes me nostalgic to hear it again and again. And I like the door, window and crack analogies even better, but I gave up crack years ago... and those analogies are like... well, I already covered that.

I've already seen "Total Recorder" on cable re-runs and my feelings for Arnold have already been expressed.

As for the virtues of "Virtual Audio Cable", I think I already covered that in my last post... let me check... yup, I did... how can I record what I'm not hearing if I can't hear what I'm recording?... (?)... and hearing "trial, trial, trial" coming out of my speakers while I blindly (or deafly) click "record" and "stop recording" in Audacity sounds like a great way to spend a Sunday afternoon.

As for the "Freecorder 4 Toolbar", I like software that hijacks my web browser since no other software will do that... and there are very mixed reviews on CNET.com about it, such as...

"works just fine in my win 7 machine" - 10/04/2010

"Disaster on this version" - 01/06/2011

"sucks, homepage gets hijacked by conduit search. BAD" - 12/06/2010

"awesome software" - 11/30/2010

"Won't work unless purchased." - 11/06/2010

"Wasn't what I was looking for" - 10/20/2010

And I got a response from a Freecoder expert on their website and she recommends testing it to see if it will record iTunes radio show broadcasts since she seems to be unsure of it's capabilities otherwise... and she said to create a restore point for later in case I want to get rid of it... now that instills confidence in their product... what a sales-person!

I covered the high-tech loopback cable solution in paragraph 4.

I'd try the USB sound card solution, but after reading the 14th page of possible solutions that involve buying and installing or plugging in various devices to solve a free software problem, my brain starts to go in to a holding pattern.

I could open up my computer to self-install a new sound card, but I'm afraid I'd forget to turn off the computer first and I would end up doing a burnt toast impression for the rest of my life.

With the installing Linux idea, I think you've stumbled in to the right idea there... but will Linux run my "Tiny-Toons Fan Club" application?

What did it for me at the end is the reiteration of the same ideas over again.

You'll have to forgive me, but on the 2nd day of being such a success at failing with this Audacity "feature", I get a little crazy... like I needed that to push me over the edge.

I think my feelings will be summed-up musically if you listen to the recording at this link... http://www.toofiles.com/en/oip/audios/m ... ecats.html

Thanks again,

digi

digiday wrote:It sounds like wax has perfected his/her pirating techniques with the combination of laptop and desktop computers... I think we could all take a lesson from wax...

Sshhhh... please don't tar me with that particular brush - and excuse me while I remove my black eyepatch, bandana, wooden leg and get the wretched parrot ("pieces of nine, pieces of nine" - parity error) off my shoulder while I take a good swig of rum ...

digiday wrote: I'd try the USB sound card solution, but after reading the 14th page of possible solutions that involve buying and installing or plugging in various devices to solve a free software problem, my brain starts to go in to a holding pattern.

Yes an external soundcard does involve a little extra expenditure. But is should be cheaper than a second PC and alsmost certainly get you better sound recording that going that route. One of the key reasons for using an external device is that it is usually (apart from the el-cheapo ones) much better audio quality than most inbuilt soundcards. Plus you get to sit it well outside the electrically noisy environment of a PC, particularly if your internal soundcard has been installed too close to the video card!). The other good bit is that it is totally transportable to any future PCs that you may buy - or to your friends' PCs.


All in all, it's just another brick in the wall ...

WC