Audacity Forum

Hello all,

The timer in version 1.3.12 beta does not appear to work. Five or so seconds after it starts the recording session, the timer halts counting but recording continues. The timer cannot therefore stop the recording as it does not advance. Clicking on 'cancel' or 'stop' or 'X' does not work. A hard boot is the only solution. At that stage, the computer asks whether to save the session. Selecting 'yes' works, sometimes.

The 'sometimes' qualification is not predictable. There are two possible outcomes: (1) material saved okay; (2) material appears to have been saved but Audacity concludes there are erroneous bits which should be deleted which it recommends be done. There is no "crash recovery" option.

If (2) occurs, selecting the recommended option deletes the entire project data.

The timing of the recording does not appear to be a relevant factor. I have recorded crossing over the 12 noon time mark and within the 12 pm to 6 pm marks. I have not tried to record over the midnight time mark. In both instances, the timer freezes after 5 seconds.

The computer is bog standard - a current Asus m/b Asus P6X58D with built in audio chip; 2.8ghz 1366 Intel processor; 6 gb ram; Windows 7 64 bit; ATI Radeon HD 5800 video card; logitech 6500 mouse. The energy saving options have been switched off.

(1) Has anyone any trouble-shooting suggestions that might lead to identifying the problem and lead on to a fix?
(2) As for the crash recovery, I have read the recovery page, but I cannot understand the recovery steps. Anyone have a simple list of steps to try?

Many thanks

Mark

If you saved a project (or tried to) and produced a _data folder at time of saving, there won't be any crash recovery. Recovery is only for unsaved data (that could be either temporary, never saved data, or data that had been saved as a project but was then further modified without saving).

We know there are issues that if the file consistency check on opening finds orphaned blockfiles and you delete them,this can damage the project. One of the developers is looking at that right now. If you don''t delete orphaned blockfiles, or only temporarily silence missing blockfiles, and if you only have a few seconds of recording, then it's easiest just to drag the .au files in from the project's _data folder and try and piece them together.

It's also well known that the Timer Record progress dialogue can freeze up meaning the recording does not stop and has to be force quit. The timer doesn't usually freeze so soon as 5 seconds into the recording. Are you starting the recording at once, or how long is the waiting time?

Can you please try the 1.3.13 alpha Nightly Build ? That has a patch that uses an internal Audacity timer for the recording itself rather than using the system clock. It seems to help, but there has still been one report of the recording timer freezing. Unfortunately until this problem happens to someone who can run a debug build of Audacity inside the Visual Studio compiler and start tracing the problem, or we find a scenario that makes the problem reproduce, it will be hard to fix.



Gale

Many thanks for the kind reply.

I am not a programmer or engineer, so sorry for the stupid questions. But the project was saved. Would it then be better not to save and to have the recovery routine intervene?

As for the orphaned block files, how do they become orphaned in the first place if the recording is otherwise, seemingly, intact? In this instance, all files appear to be characterised as bad - hence they are all deleted. The problem is either in the block files themselves (i.e. the recording), or in the administrative record (i.e. the making of the Audacity project file).

There is a 3rd possibility. You say there are issues in the file consistency check on opening the project which finds orphaned blockfiles. Could this routine be the culprit? Why does the routine find orphaned files and could there be problems with the coding used to test whether a file is an orphan, whatever it means to be an orphan?

There is a 4th scenario - that there is a problem with both the timing routine and the recording of the blocks and/or the Audacity project files.

Also, does Audacity treat differently a saved and an unsaved project when it checks blocks? If so, could knowing this narrow the problem?

Given that the freeze happens when the timer enters the recording phase, is there not some routine that could be written to detect this freeze which might be useful to assess where in the programming the problem lies? It is very consistant that the timer freezes after about 5 seconds after recording starts (i.e. the timer has successfully waited the allotted time to begin, and only once it begins does it freeze).

I will try the 1.3.13 build and let you know how I make out. Thanks for the suggestion.

You suggest that "until this problem happens to someone who can run a debug build of Audacity inside the Visual Studio compiler and start tracing the problem, or we find a scenario that makes the problem reproduce, it will be hard to fix." Is this something I can assist with? With a bit of instruction, I would be happy to try. I've written and compiled other projects before, but that was a long time ago with some simple programming. And I have created routines in Rexx and more complex routines using WP 6 programming macros. So I would be happy to try. What version of Visual Studio would I need?

Finally, I tried using the timer by setting it without delay. It worked reliably. So, it seems the problem arises when it is asked to wait a period of time before initiating recording.

Cheers,

Mark

heseltine wrote:The project was saved. Would it then be better not to save and to have the recovery routine intervene?

I think so. If you force quit, Audacity will have a clean autosave file (essentially like the .aup project file you get when you save a project) and clean temporary folder to recover from. If you exit, Audacity will stop recording and at that point will be trying to copy the data from the temporary folder to the project _data folder, and write an .aup file. If it isn't responding properly, that's risky.

heseltine wrote:As for the orphaned block files, how do they become orphaned in the first place if the recording is otherwise, seemingly, intact? In this instance, all files appear to be characterised as bad - hence they are all deleted. The problem is either in the block files themselves (i.e. the recording), or in the administrative record (i.e. the making of the Audacity project file).

You are probably seeing a combination of the point I made above with some intermittent, not fully reproducible problem that causes the .au files in the _data folder to be referenced incorrectly.

heseltine wrote:...There is a 4th scenario - that there is a problem with both the timing routine and the recording of the blocks and/or the Audacity project files.

Recoveries from frozen up timer recordings almost always recover correctly according to reports. I don't suspect a problem with the data in the blockfiles.

heseltine wrote:Does Audacity treat differently a saved and an unsaved project when it checks blocks? If so, could knowing this narrow the problem?

At the moment, the consistency check dialogue where you choose whether to delete or silence files isn't actually offered on recovered projects (either from temporary, as yet unsaved projects or from already existing projects). The information is at Help > Show Log however.

heseltine wrote:Given that the freeze happens when the timer enters the recording phase, is there not some routine that could be written to detect this freeze which might be useful to assess where in the programming the problem lies? It is very consistant that the timer freezes after about 5 seconds after recording starts (i.e. the timer has successfully waited the allotted time to begin, and only once it begins does it freeze)... I tried using the timer by setting it without delay. It worked reliably. So, it seems the problem arises when it is asked to wait a period of time before initiating recording.

It might be possible to add information that would be written to Help > Show Log, but that isn't written to a file, so wouldn't survive restart.

I only know of one other person who has this timer freeze as consistently as you suggest, and she pretty much gave up on Audacity because of it, before the current 1.3.13 was to hand. How long is your wait time before recording starts, and how long is the recording time?

heseltine wrote:You suggest that "until this problem happens to someone who can run a debug build of Audacity inside the Visual Studio compiler and start tracing the problem, or we find a scenario that makes the problem reproduce, it will be hard to fix." Is this something I can assist with? With a bit of instruction, I would be happy to try. I've written and compiled other projects before, but that was a long time ago with some simple programming. And I have created routines in Rexx and more complex routines using WP 6 programming macros. So I would be happy to try. What version of Visual Studio would I need?

You need Visual Studio 2008 Express (2010 is available, but Audacity doesn't yet compile with it). You would build DLL Unicode Debug version of wxWidgets then the Unicode Debug configuration of Audacity. If you would like to help, please see Developing on WIndows.


Thanks



Gale

heseltine wrote: You suggest that "until this problem happens to someone who can run a debug build of Audacity inside the Visual Studio compiler and start tracing the problem, or we find a scenario that makes the problem reproduce, it will be hard to fix." Is this something I can assist with? With a bit of instruction, I would be happy to try. I've written and compiled other projects before, but that was a long time ago with some simple programming. And I have created routines in Rexx and more complex routines using WP 6 programming macros. So I would be happy to try. What version of Visual Studio would I need?

I have helped a few others get started compiling Audacity (and wxWidgets--use the 2.8.11 version). VS2008 (or the free VC2008 Express) is what you want (as Gale says, Audacity will not compile with 2010 but 2008 and 2010 may be installed at the same time). If you have any problems getting set up or in the debugging process feel free to contact me and I will send you my e-mail @dress via PM.

Gale, Edgar, many thanks for the replies and help.

I've installed the nightly build for 25th July. Same problem. I start the timer - set with a 1 hour delay and a 4 hour recording time. It started recording but on the 5th second, it froze. Very strange. It does not appear to matter whether the recording is long or short. I have been working with recording 2 hours to 4.5 hours. No difference. Later on this evening I will try very short recordings - ie 10 seconds, 5 minutes, that sort of thing and see what happens. I will also try starting the timer with an unsaved project to see if it also freezes.

Would the sound chip on the m/b, or the video card or the USB mouse interfere in any way? It would be good to rule out hardware.

Thank you Gale for the informative response and thank you Edar for the offer. I will look into installing VC2008 Express and see where I can get to.

Mark

heseltine wrote:Would the sound chip on the m/b, or the video card or the USB mouse interfere in any way? It would be good to rule out hardware.

The sound device always needs up-to-date sound drivers - obviously if you were to just hit Record to start a manual recording and Audacity froze or crashed after a few seconds that suggests the problem is with the device.

Waiting an hour to start recording is certainly worth looking at as something that might make the problem reproduce easier. You could test having very much shorter waiting times and seeing if the recording timer still froze. The waiting timer is still dependent on the system clock in 1.3.13.


Gale

I'd like to hear the words: "I started a recording manually -- no timer-- and it went 20 minutes with no problem."

Koz

Gale Andrews wrote:Waiting an hour to start recording is certainly worth looking at as something that might make the problem reproduce easier.

On Windows 7 with 1.3.13 alpha, I've now done three timer records with an hour's wait then a recording of 1 minute, 10 minutes and 60 minutes respectively. There were no problems, but I have never once come across this problem for whatever reason.



Gale

Gale,

I started the usual recording yesterday (about 4 hours count-down with 2.5 hours recording time) but with out saving the project first. When I returned to examine the project, it had progressed to about 5 hours without the timer began to freeze on the 5th second. I killed the process using Task Manager. I then restarted Audacity and it began the crash recovery process. I allowed it to recover and saved the file. It seemed to work. I had to adjust the view of the tracks as they had compressed that into about 4 bars of one hour each - Zoom Normal fixed that.

Today, however, the same scenario happened - and the timer froze. I tried to click first on the X box in the upper right hand corner of the timer indicator box. Nothing. So I did the same with the "cancel" button on the timer indicator. Nothing. I then tried to kill the process using Task Manager but it said it was waiting for a response from me to an Audacity open dialogue box. That box asked whether I wanted to save the project before closing. I said yes. I pointed to a directory and I named the filename to save it with. It then began to save and opened a progress box showing the time elapsed. It froze after 5 seconds and stopped responding (with a label saying so in the upper left hand Audacity label area of the window frame. I think there was a dialogue box that said "close?" and I used Task manager to kill it instead. When I reopened Audacity no crash screen appeared. When I opened the project, only the last 1/5th of the project was saved. The first 3/5th of the track was blank.

So, it seems it is best simply to force Audacity to close without any action on its part and then use the crash recovery process.

I will try different timing times tonight including Koz's suggestion.

Mark