Defining Songs.

[mixpix]

I've been through the tutorials on the Audacity main page; thanks for them but I am stumped.

I am converting about 200 cassette tapes & about 20-30 hours of reel to reel. What I want to do is divide the individual songs so I can title each track. What is the easiest manner to accomplish this task? A lot of the tapes & made from vinyl & that the background hissing, popping & scratching might make it difficult to define the break between songs?

I followed the one tutorial: 'Splitting a recording into separate tracks' from the Audacity site. I tried to follow what the site said about "zooming"; didn't know what that was about & why? I tried using :Analyze->Silence finder & then played around with the timing but I couldn't figure out how to get the feature to pick out the breaks. I did a feature to put up the text box & the "tabs" but couldn't figure how they were used.

I was able to play with the project & transfer it to iTunes but also keeping a copy of it in the original Audacity format. I realized that the only program that will open that particular file is Audacity.

Please, if you have any tips on how to get this task of defining each song, I would greatly appreciate it! Thanks!!!

[whomper]

ctrl-B at the start of a track will do it
after you locate the cursor where it starts then
put in a name
when you export multiple you get separate tracks
be sure to put one at the start of the first one

even with noise there should be a definite gap between tracks when you look at the waveform
you may want to zoom in some to help find them
else
you can listen to the music to find them

usually you dont have to do that
but i did once with a cd that that was released from a tape original
as one long track and the different tunes ran into each other with no gaps -- the reverb from the last one died down and the next track started immediately

[steve]

A lot of the tapes & made from vinyl & that the background hissing, popping & scratching might make it difficult to define the break between songs?

Yes, that's true. If there is real silence between tracks you can use the "Silence Finder" tool to create markers in the gaps between tracks, but if the "gaps" have a lot of noise, then Silence Finder will be unable to detect the gaps.

If you plan to use the "Noise Removal" effect, (or any other noise reduction tools), then you may have more success using the silence finder tool after cleaning up the recording and reducing the noise. The settings in Silence Finder are critical to whether or not it will find gaps between songs.
If the "Minimum duration of silence" is set to 1 second, then gaps of less than 1 second duration will not be detected.
The more noise there is between tracks, the higher you will need to set the "Treat audio below this level as silence" slider.
If there are loud crackles in the gaps between tracks, the Silence Finder will not find the gaps and you will need to mark the tracks manually.

I followed the one tutorial: 'Splitting a recording into separate tracks' from the Audacity site.

Was that this tutorial?
http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Split ... ate_tracks
That tutorial was written using Audacity 1.2, so there will be some minor differences with Audacity 1.3. These differences should not affect the method, but some parts (such as labels) will look a bit different.

I did a feature to put up the text box & the "tabs"

I'm not sure what you mean - are you talking about "labels"?
There is a section in the manual all about labels: http://manual.audacityteam.org/index.ph ... bel_Tracks

I realized that the only program that will open that particular file is Audacity.

Oh good
That is one of the most common misunderstandings. I always like to direct new users to the first section of this page as it explains a lot about what an Audacity project is and how Audacity handles files http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/File_Management_Tips

[mixpix]

I followed the one tutorial: 'Splitting a recording into separate tracks' from the Audacity site.

Was that this tutorial?
http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Split ... ate_tracks
That tutorial was written using Audacity 1.2, so there will be some minor differences with Audacity 1.3. These differences should not affect the method, but some parts (such as labels) will look a bit different.

I did a feature to put up the text box & the "tabs"

I'm not sure what you mean - are you talking about "labels"?
There is a section in the manual all about labels: http://manual.audacityteam.org/index.ph ... bel_Tracks

I realized that the only program that will open that particular file is Audacity.

Oh good
That is one of the most common misunderstandings. I always like to direct new users to the first section of this page as it explains a lot about what an Audacity project is and how Audacity handles files http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/File_Management_Tips

Thanks Steve,
Actually the 'splitting a recording into separate tracks' was from this site h e r e. Maybe the site you posted is more comprehensible even though it is on the 1.2?
I was talking about labels but found some tabs associated with the Ctrl+B. I went to the very beginning of the recording, deleting all but about 1 sec. of silence then hit Ctrl+B. The text box comes up then I type the title of the song but also notice that there is a tab that can be stretched out. I didn't know what the complete function of this feature that I could utilize?

I guess what I am trying to say is, I hope there is a way to fast find spaces between songs or cuts without physically having to search the sound file. That is what I did; dragging across the sound file until I find a suspected dead space between songs then play to make sure. Then I repeat the cycle of Ctrl+B & writing the next song name. I was hoping to find a fast search between songs. If it isn't possible what I am describing then please let me know now so I am mentally prepared for a long haul of converting 30+ years of cassette tapes. At least I can convert them to WAV/ACC files so I can move to iTunes too. I am hoping there are some features I can use from them also?

[steve]

There are "zoom" buttons available (magnifying glass)
(+) Zoom in
(-) Zoom out
-<->- Zoom to selection
>---< Zoom to full project

If you have a wheel mouse you can also use Ctrl + Mouse Wheel (probably the fastest way to zoom in and out).
If you don't have a wheel mouse you can use Ctrl + 1 , Ctrl + 2 , Ctrl + 3

If you zoom out quite a long way so that several songs are visible, it is usually possible to see where one song ends and the next one starts.
You can then click to place the cursor in roughly the right place, then zoom in to find the exact position that you want to mark.
After placing the marker (Ctrl + B), zoom back out again to find the next song.

Using Ctrl + the mouse wheel for the zooming, and with a little practice (you will get lots of practice with all of those tapes ), marking the track positions will become very quick.

ut also notice that there is a tab that can be stretched out.

I think you are refering to "region" labels. Do you mean like this?

screenshot.png (12.29 KiB) Viewed 1335 times

The old Audacity 1.2 version could only mark single points, but Audacity 1.3 can mark either single points, or "regions" of a track. Marking regions is very useful for some things, but not for what you are doing - all you need is single point markers. To move a marker without making it expand into a region marker, click carefully on the circle in the middle of the marker and you can drag it without it expanding. If you accidentally cause the marker to expand to a region, it is probably easiest to just delete the marker and put it in again.

[mixpix]

Steve,
I am clumsily getting to mark tracks via "silence finder". Now the issue is saving the work so the tabs remain attached. I keep trying to save the work or project but a box comes out & directs me to export because I've created a file that only Audacity can open. When I create the WAV file to store, the project doesn't have the tabs the next time I open it up. This time I closed & saved it going through the other step of saving a document or something like it; a little box with a couple of options & 3 buttons at the bottom. Anyway, I saved the file that said only Audacity can open up but how will I be able to save a WAV file through Audacity that has the song titles on each track?

Even as I used silence finder db setting: 10 time: 0.5, I got a few extra tabs but utilized them anyway. I didn't care if I had to label a couple of more tabs per song. Of course It would be great if I could look at the track & see the name but hey, I didn't expect this much & it's free. Then again, as I get more educated with he functions, I'll get more out of it & I might get to be a help for someone else down the road?

I've only recorded this one 90 minute tape that I compiled 20 years ago & am experimenting wit it. I've saved both the Audacity only file & the WAV for exporting. I want to be able to export to iTunes & have it recognize the song breaks I defined. I don't want it to play a 90 minute tape as one song so it is an important feature for me.

Hopefully it doesn't pain you to read through my fumbling & I appreciate the help. Heck, I hardly get this kind of help from products that i have purchased. i am glad I found this site.

And one more thing Steve, how do you take a snap shot of the web page or item that you post?
Thanks again, you'll hear more from me. Glad to be on the 1.3 side instead of the "dark"

[steve]

While you are still working on the project, "Save" it as an Audacity project. (Exporting as a WAV file is a good way to make backups).

When you have finished, you will want to create a series of WAV files - one file for each track. These files can then be played individually, imported into iTunes, burned as separate tracks onto an audio CD, or whatever you like. To create these files you use "Export Multiple" from the file menu.
See here for more details: http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Split ... t_Multiple

Hopefully it doesn't pain you to read through my fumbling

No worries mate. As I see it, Open Source software is a community thing and community is all about doing what you can and helping each other.

[mixpix]

While you are still working on the project, "Save" it as an Audacity project. (Exporting as a WAV file is a good way to make backups).

When you have finished, you will want to create a series of WAV files - one file for each track. These files can then be played individually, imported into iTunes, burned as separate tracks onto an audio CD, or whatever you like. To create these files you use "Export Multiple" from the file menu.
See here for more details: http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Split ... t_Multiple

Hopefully it doesn't pain you to read through my fumbling

No worries mate. As I see it, Open Source software is a community thing and community is all about doing what you can and helping each other.

Now it is beginning to make sense. The key is I have to export the individual tracks over to iTunes or into WAV files for export? I guess I do have a lot of work.
Thanks again, I hope I can develop an intuitive sense to this format. Is it possible to push the quality up from what was a muddy original recording?

Just thought I would throw that in there because the next frontier or a bit later will be to clean up the record popping & such. I am always afraid of messing with that aspect because I didn't want to step on any of the music frequencies. I know I'll get it by reading the tutorials but sometimes someone knows the short cut on these things? There might be a formula to the settings or the effects incorporated that mimics a high quality recording?

I had to work with dolby for years. I actually didn't like it even though I have A Sansui 9090 db, the name implies it has built in dolby & it does. The Teac A-640 has dolby that I think is better; it's more suttle for sure. I would use it if I thought the recording was running too high of frequencies. Other than that, the production cassette tapes with dolby weren't that good. Of course people at home with decent equipment could record an above professional quality tape from an LP, which I did as soon as I opened the album. After I figured I spent so much on albums from the music store, I made hunts to the second hand record shops or book stores for the used albums. Of course the down fall of getting away from the new stuff was the records were scratched & a bit warped at times. There is a lot of time spent chasing & recording music. I am glad I discovered this site so I can carry the format over; but it isn't simple.

[waxcylinder]

Now it is beginning to make sense. The key is I have to export the individual tracks over to iTunes or into WAV files for export? I guess I do have a lot of work.

mixpix, You may finfd this workflow tutorial that I wrote for the manual useful: http://manual.audacityteam.org/index.ph ... gitization

It is part of this set of tutorials: http://manual.audacityteam.org/index.ph ... iscs_to_CD

Just thought I would throw that in there because the next frontier or a bit later will be to clean up the record popping & such. I am always afraid of messing with that aspect because I didn't want to step on any of the music frequencies. I know I'll get it by reading the tutorials but sometimes someone knows the short cut on these things? There might be a formula to the settings or the effects incorporated that mimics a high quality recording?

As you can see from my workflow above I use Audacity for most of the production chain - but I really recommend using ClickRepair for click and pop removal. It costs anout $40 but is well worth it for the time and effort that it saves - and I find the results just a little shy of magic. See this sticky thread http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1994

I had to work with dolby for years. I actually didn't like it ...

I agree - I had Dolby B & C available on my Nakamichi BX-2 but I never used either - and like you I used to immediately record my new Ls to good quality tape (TDK-SA) - hard work ...

WC

[mixpix]

WC,
Thanks for all your advice & that tool you recommend 'ClickRepair', will probably be the first tool I buy. I appreciate the advice.

I'll dig through the tutorials; there is a couple of other items I hope to find.

Is there a thread that instructs how to use the Audacity recorder in the manner in which the music is done playing, the recorder on Audacity will stop? I thought I read in one of the threads before?
Thanks,
mix