Newbie with Noise Removal problems with 78s

[henningdj370]

I am freshly registered with Audacity and so far am very impressed with the cooperation and information in these fora . But my problem is with trying to use the noise removal effect (by Dominic Mazzoni) in my projects. Here's what I do. I got an ION usb turntable (Profile Flash model) and use it to record a collection of 78 rpm records my dad and aunt had collected in their youth. I record the disk at 45 rpm to a flash drive. Plug that into the PC (with Windows 7 64 bit) and open it in audacity. I then use the Change Speed effect to go from 45 to 78. The recording comes out fine - for pitch and temp, etc. But as one would imagine there is a LOT of static noise, clicks and pops in the recording. If I use the click removal effect, it does a good job of getting rid of the clicks and pops, but the static noise of the record is still there. I have exported the project to MP3 (my ultimate destination) and the mp3 file sounds just like the project play back . But if I use the noise removal effect (keep the default settings) - using the first couple of seconds of the recording as the needle rides the beginning of the grove before the record really begins) as the noise profile - and make the change to the project, the result is a grand reduction in the noise level - just what I wanted - but the recording now sounds like it was done inside an empty tunnel - the sound is very 'hollow' sounding with a slight echo or reverb....that really ruins the recording.

I know there can be 10,001 different settings for all this, but this 'effect' happens about the same whether the record I am recording was from Decca, or Capitol, or RCA Victor. I was wondering if someone has already conquered this problem and discovered the inevitable 'magic' combination.

Thanks in advance for your attention.
-dennis

[kozikowski]

<<<But as one would imagine there is a LOT of static noise, clicks and pops in the recording.>>>

But there doesn't have to be. 78s take a different size needle from 45 and 33-1/3. If you try to use a 45 needle anyway, the needle will sit at the bottom of the super-wide groove a pick up a huge amount of dirt, cat hairs and groove noise. It didn't do any of that when it was playing on a real 78 player.

As you're finding out, patching up the sound in post production is an enormous amount of work for marginal or outright bad results.

http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic ... lit=78+rpm

Koz

[whomper]

<<<But as one would imagine there is a LOT of static noise, clicks and pops in the recording.>>>

But there doesn't have to be. 78s take a different size needle from 45 and 33-1/3. If you try to use a 45 needle anyway, the needle will sit at the bottom of the super-wide groove a pick up a huge amount of dirt, cat hairs and groove noise. It didn't do any of that when it was playing on a real 78 player.

As you're finding out, patching up the sound in post production is an enormous amount of work for marginal or outright bad results.

http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic ... lit=78+rpm

Koz

indeed
you need better noise reduction tools

DAK makes a 78rpm needle/cartridge for their lp to cd recording kit
not sure about your player - ask your manufacturer

[steve]

Replacement stylus (styli?) suitable for 78's are available for most ION turntables. Have a look in Google http://www.google.co.uk/products?q=ion+78+stylus&hl=en

[waxcylinder]

Have a read of this turtorial from the manual that is in production for 1.3/2.0: http://manual.audacityteam.org/index.ph ... pm_records

WC

[henningdj370]

In my original description of the process I used, I failed to mention that I am using a 78rpm designed needle in the cartridge. So the needle should not be riding in the bottom of the groove. Its really a problem of the noise reduction effect takes and makes the whole sound 'hollow' and 'tinny'. I've tried doing the change speed first, then click removal, then noice reduction effects, or noise reduction first, then change speed, etc. But end effect is always that hollow, tinny result. Does any else have this problem on working with trying to get vinyl records to MP3s?
Thanks.

[waxcylinder]

... But end effect is always that hollow, tinny result. ...

A couple of points spring to mind:

1) the IONs normally have a switchable setting line/Phono - I think that you need to set it to line so that the ION will use the pre-amp stage that it has on-board. This will apply RIAA equalization as well as amplification - but it will be the wrong equalization for 78s

2) You will then need to follow the steps in the tutorial I pointed you at above on how to correct the equalization for 78s by removing the RIAA EQ and adding the right EQ for each of your 78s with Audacity's Equalization effect.

And no, people don't get this problem with vinyl LPs when they do it right. BTW how do your LPs come out sounding when you Audacitize them with your ION?

WC

[Irish]

That hollow, tinny sound can be a result of using too much noise reduction. It means you are getting rid of some of the music along with the noise.

Noise reduction is always a compromise, because on the one hand you can have all the music and a lot of noise, and on the other hand, no noise and only some of the music. Try lower settings on the "Noise Reduction (dB)" slider until you get the best compromise.

You can improve things a lot by cleaning the records thoroughly before you record them, and so needing less noise reduction. See Waxcylinder's tutorial for the detail.

PO'L

[whomper]

In my original description of the process I used, I failed to mention that I am using a 78rpm designed needle in the cartridge. ... But end effect is always that hollow, tinny result. Does any else have this problem on working with trying to get vinyl records to MP3s?
Thanks.

are you doing anything else besides noise removal?
can you make a wav file that sounds okay?
are you compressing the mp3 or using low bit rate quality ?

78s are not that noisy
try removing just the worst of teh pops and ticks instead of trying to make it sound like a modern quiet studio recording