Export lacks "punch"

[dbish]

I am new to Audacity and am quite impressed. I am using it to capture concerts from a collection of rock concerts (similiar to Youtube). I am using Windows XP and have a medium level SoundBlaster add-in sound card. I capture to the sound stream in Stereo Mix (44100 Mzh, 32 bit float, I/O preferences set to: Recording Device MME: SoundBlaster Live, 2 channel, and defaults on Conversion techniques). When I play back the sound stream from the Audacity project it sounds virtually as good as the original source stream.

My problem is when I try to export the Audacity Sound Stream to a form that I can use elsewhere. I have exported it in Microsoft signed WAV 16 bit PCM as well as 128 bit and 256 bit MP3. I am using the latest LAME 3.98.2. I have encountered the exact same results with Audacity version 1.2 and 1.3.7.

My specific problem is, even in WAV format, the playback in any device (Audacity, MusicMatchbox, Windows Media player) the recording lacks "punch". I hope I can describe this. When a singer hits highs the highs are not as high as in the original. The lows are washed out, the volume is lower throughout out the recording. MP3 (both bit rates) is slightly worse than WAV as expected but I was surprised that WAV was washed out.

Audacity has done an excellent job of capturing the original sound stream and preserving it in .AUD format. What settings do I need to play with to get an accurate WAV export?

Thanks in advance

dbish

[steve]

I suspect this is a combination of different playback levels and perception rather than anything to do with the wav file being different from the recorded audio.
Try this experiment - depending on the outcome there may be a very easy fix.

1) Open Audacity and record a track.
2) In Preferences (Edit menu > Preferences) go to the "Interface" tab, set the "Solo Button" to "Simple".
3) Export as "16 bit (Microsoft) PCM WAV"
4) Import the Exported file back into Audacity (you now have 2 copies of the same track - they should be identical).
5) Click the "solo" button on one of the tracks and press the spacebar to play.
6) While the track is playing, click on the solo button of the other track, then on the first track, then on the other track... switching from one track to the other there should be no audible difference.

[dbish]

Thanks.

Going through your procedure - yes the files sound the same. So I guess I am simply losing it!

dbish

[steve]

It's possible that your recorded tracks are just a little quieter than expected.

Try this:
1) record something
2) select the full recorded track (double click on the track
3) from the effects menu select "Amplify" - the amplify effect will automatically be set to the maximum level without clipping any peaks in the recording - how much does it say it will amplify by?
4) Apply the amplify effect - does that sound any better?

[dbish]

Dear stevethefiddle,

Thanks so much for helping me out here!

I tried the amplify effect and the applied amount would only be 0.7 db. My concern is not Audacity's capture (which I think is quite similiar to the live source) as much as the WAV export which you have shown me to be the same sound stream. I think my original question is now answered.

A related question - when I capture the live sound source I experimented with various Input Volume settings to see which settings produced the best dynamic range. It appeared the higher the Input Volume setting the better. (I run all my MP3s through a program called MPGain which adjusts the MP3 amplify field so that the weighted average volume is 89 db.) I ended up with a preferred Input Volume setting of 0.7 which is at the high end of the scale. There does not seem to be clipping and the 0.7 reading on the Audacity amplify function (per first paragraph) would seem to support this choice. Am I looking at this question the right way?

If you are a fan of rock & roll I suggest you investigate http://www.wolfgangsvault.com. This is the source for my music capture and there are some incredible live concerts available at this site. (My small way of reciprocating all your help!)

dbish

[kozikowski]

Since you're capturing live, nobody once mentioned the process between the singer and the computer. There is a Hollywood Professional Union devoted to that one step. Microphones? Mixer? Headsets? It's not as easy as everybody thinks.

There's no shortage of people wanting their camcorder capture of a live concert to sound like a produced live event. There's very little danger of that happening. What are the performances and how are you doing it?

Koz

[dbish]

It is not "Live" live - it is recorded concerts from the 1960-90s that were recorded (music only) on public presentation outlets like Don Kirschner's Rock Hour or King Biscuit Flower Hour. The presentations on http://www.wolfgangsvault.com is essentially the same as YouTube - a streaming feed from the internet. Whatever quality issues there are in the recording were decided 40 years ago. Some are definitely better than others.

[kozikowski]

So that's where the punch went. We're probably listening to a recording made off-air from a recording of the live event. Two tapes and multiple compressors. One of the restrictions of doing that is the relative closeness of the noise floor and the overload points. There are certainly ways to dynamically decompress the original performance, but the process will also bring up all the accumulated noise and hash. The peaks can be restored more or less, too, but the system distortion will come up with it.

No doubt you found by now that just trying to put the sparkle and crispness back had a disastrous affect on the background noise.

And just because Nomenclature R Us, if you consider capturing a 50 year old performance "live" what would you call singing into a microphone? This comes up a lot.

Koz

[waxcylinder]

So that's where the punch went. We're probably listening to a recording made off-air from a recording of the live event.

No Koz, my understanding is that most of these recordings in Wolfgang's Vault were made directly off the mixing desk in many cases.

I have streamed and recorded with Audacity some excellent performances from this site with good sound quality.

WC

[kozikowski]

<<<No Koz, my understanding is that most of these recordings in Wolfgang's Vault were made directly off the mixing desk in many cases.>>>

So this is the thing we keep ranting about. Somebody that actually has access to the original mix tapes. Wooo Hooo! I can die happy.

Koz