Audacity Forum

Now that I look at it I think there should be a different intro div above the original advice div

Edgar wrote: I think it should be removed from the Element and added as an intro div or advice div as appropriate.

+1

And Iexpanded the advice div - to tell the reader how show the names of the various items from hover-help.

Peter.

I also noticed a broken link in the Element. We still used Track_Panel and I changed it to Track_Control_Panel.

I know the whole Project Window page is a bone of contention and is still very short. I would add the WindowElements Template there if we lose this (...Impatient) page. I have no problem with losing the ...Impatient page but agree that this info is important and needs to go someplace--maybe (not really sure though) on the Quick Help page.

Edgar wrote:I also noticed a broken link in the Element. We still used Track_Panel and I changed it to Track_Control_Panel...

Good catch Edgar

waxcylinder wrote: Good catch

I noticed it while hovering and saw the bubble tip. Sometimes being borderline OC has a positive effect--especially as an editor <grin>!

waxcylinder wrote:Hey I think we're getting close Gale - I really like most of what you've done with that Version-5 very much. I totally agree that the sample workflows don't need that visibility - my primary aim with this proposal was to give a little more prominence to the Tutorials.

I have created a version 6 based on your V5 with the following minor changes:

1. "Tutorials" and "How Do I" swapped over - I just think it's slightly better that way round, but if you would prefer I'd be happy to revert it back tour your V5 layout

2. reverted "Readme Articles" to "Using Audacity" - I really don't like that use of Readme. More typically a Readme is a single document that comes with a release (or a piece of kit) with most essential information contained therein. This section contains many articles and not all of them are essential reading - many folk can, and probably do, get on fine without ever reading the "Help with Advanced Issues" subsection.

3. renamed "How do I's" to "How do I ..." Though we may find a better title for this later - but I did hate that apostrophe.

I prefer 1) too, though the swap went wrong somehow - the vertical divider didn't centre and a word overflowed on the next line due to a superfluous panel on the right - fixed in v7.

Other suggestions I tried out there:

* "Quick "Where and How?"" instead of "Quick How do I ..."

* "Understanding Audacity" instead of "Foundations", and move in "Mixing Audio Tracks" from "Help with Advanced Topics" (renamed from "Help with Advanced Issues") - this equalises the items per section

* "FAQ, Glossary and More..." instead of "Miscellaneous"

I left "Using Audacity" named as that though I'm not convinced those articles are working well or carefully read. I almost called the panel "Foundation and Advanced Topics" but it is too wide for the navbar, My strong impression is that these articles "fall between" the tutorials and the Reference, both of which look more "relevant" to "using Audacity". That's why I was trying to get them across as something to be "read". I agree "README" has specific connotations as you suggest.

Dominic regarded the "Foundations" as important background reading to get the most out of Audacity, and some of them are arguably more important than that. Does anyone else share my concerns/have better ideas for a title? James calls the Foundations "semi-tutorials".

I also think there is a good case for putting the FAQ in the "Quick" panel instead of stuck at the bottom - if so perhaps the panel would be called "Quick Answers" instead?

waxcylinder wrote:

Gale Andrews wrote:I still think the current v5 "How To" panel would have a better chance of success as a standalone panel instead, (yellow or whatever colour) above the blocks of "white on blue" panels. I don't think that makes the Tutorials or quick how to's less a part of the Manual. I don't know why we're discounting this as an option - reading the feedback above it seems to me that is what is needed.

I'm actually not discounting that as an option. I just think that it looks more visually coherent to have these items in the blue Table of Contents.

I think one or both "How do I" panels could take an image or even a subtly different background colour. I still feel they are not "blatant" enough and wonder if even having the link to "Example Workflows" clutters the effect.

If we ever got to 8 or 10 tutorials I doubt we would want to use the space to list them all on the front page. And clearly we don't want a standalone *and* a main panel.

I agree the proposal is better than what we have now and I will apply it as soon as the final details are agreed but I think we should consider a standalone as a more open-spaced alternative e.g. links to the "diagram", "quick help", Tutorials index page (either only to that page, or use truncated descriptions) and FAQ. At least it would be a fallback if the number of Tutorials expand greatly.



Gale

Hi Gale,

I like everything that you did in version 7 - and thanks for fixing the layout problem. I have made a few minor tweaks to produce a V8:
1. added a space before the question mark in the "How Do I ?" title.
2. On the "Where and How?" I substituted the question mark for an ellipsis.
3. Move the FAQs up into the top "How Do I ?" section - as you suggested. I too think it works better there.
See: Version 8

Gale Andrews wrote:I agree the proposal is better than what we have now and I will apply it as soon as the final details are agreed but I think we should consider a standalone as a more open-spaced alternative e.g. links to the "diagram", "quick help", Tutorials index page (either only to that page, or use truncated descriptions) and FAQ. At least it would be a fallback if the number of Tutorials expand greatly.

Yes I too want to keep open counsel on the standalone - especially if and when the number of tutorials grows.

=========================================================================

Gale Andrews wrote:Dominic regarded the "Foundations" as important background reading to get the most out of Audacity, and some of them are arguably more important than that. Does anyone else share my concerns/have better ideas for a title? James calls the Foundations "semi-tutorials".

Reading this comment led me to consider a further experimental reorganizing of the Front page layout:
1. Moving "Understanding Audacity" up into the top block "How Do I ..."
2. Moving "Help with advanced issues" over to the left in the "Using Audacity" block
3. Moving the Tutorials down into the "Using Audacity" block

And in response to comments that you made regarding the Tutorials section I:
1. removed the links from the "tutorials & Example Workflows" header
2. added a link to "Example Workflows"

See: Version 9

Peter.

First, I want to say that I think having this conversation on the forum is so much nicer than trying to communicate on the wiki--thanks! I believe that we are very close to a great result.

I believe we might go one step further--"Combine "How Do I ? ..." and "Using Audacity" into one major panel with four sub-divisions (just like "Reference" has); saves a bit of space and I believe these topics are all conceptually closely related.

BTW, lose the ellipses in the non-clickable titles. How Do I ? ... -> How Do I ?, Quick "Where and How ..." -> Quick Where and How (lose the quotes too) and FAQ, Glossary and More... -> FAQ, Glossary and More. Ellipses has a very specific meaning in computer terminology: if you select the text it will lead to a dialog requesting additional user input needed to carry out an operation; these are not clickable.

On the other hand, there are clickable titles which might benefit from ellipses (Tutorials & Example Workflows -- oops they have been clickable but on ver9 are not??; Project Window). The only reason I suggest this is that with the blue background it is almost impossible to detect that the titles are links.

Thanks, Peter. I'm unsure about version 9 and need to think a bit more about that. One disadvantage (now) of the swap is that it uses quite a bit more space.

Maybe "Tutorials" should be on the left and "Help with Advanced" on the right? I think "Understanding Audacity" is closer to "Using Audacity than "How do I..?" and that on the whole the Tutorials would get more people "started" more quickly than the more abstract "Understanding Audacity". For sure, I'd guess "Understanding" would get more attention that way but I hope the wording change will do that to some extent.

Combining "How Do I ? ..." and "Using Audacity" could be done with either v8 or v9 - again I'd like to consider that some more but off the cuff I quite like it - it resolves the "Using Audacity" wording problem (as I see it).

I like moving "Further Help" into the "Quick" panel as Peter has done even though Forum/-users list is not necessarily "quick". It would be an answer to getting a more visible link to the Forum (and there is space for an explicit Forum link).

I agree with Ed there is no need to lose the link to the Tutorial overview page - though I think removing "Example Workflows" from the heading may be better, which I tried in version 9. Anyone want to try an image in that panel to draw attention to it? Or would any image be better in a standalone?


Gale

Gale and Ed,

thanks for your invaluable feedback I have created a new mockup version which attemps to combine the best of V8 and V9 and incorporates the comments you both made in your immediately previous posts.

Based on V8 & incorporating feedback from Ed and Gale:
1.consolidated "How Do I" and "Using Audacity" into "Using Audacity"
2.moved "Further Help" up to top block and moved "Credits" to the left of the bottom block for balance in the bottom block
3.incorporated the V9 Tutorials section, with Gale's modifications
4.tidied the heading of the bottom section for accuracy of content and noting Ed's comment re inappropriate use of ellipsis

I really like the visual of the combined "Using Audacity" - the flow works both acroos and down for me. The "Using Audacity" and the "Reference" sections now look better balanced I think - I'm sure this was part of Ed's thinking in this forum thread.

See: Version 10

@Gale: Can we get rid of the "Audacity Project Format" that is marked for deletion on the bottom block, or is that dependent on you making the consolidated project format page?

Peter