clock tiles for sync-lock visually confusing

[billw58]

As a real world user, the tiles need to be diagonal so that the edge of the highlighted area can be clearly seen regardless of its exact position (assuming that tiled images are to be used)

+1. And as I recall the last posts on -quality on this issue indicated that the diagonal (tilted square) tiling was preferred by everyone. There has also been some discussion of adding a dotted-line border to the selection, and ways of making the selection more visible in "loud" waveforms.

I'd also like to see some indication that Sync-lock is enabled in the ordinary selection shading. When selecting a region the attention is on the region, not on the little clock symbols in the corner of the track info, or the state of the Sync-lock button. Perhaps a negative version of the tiles or something?

I don't mind the "regular" shading in the "primary" selection. When selecting a region the sync-lock-selection tiling (when improved) will adequately indicate that the tracks are sync-locked. My concern is when the selection is just the cursor. In that case there is no indication in the sync-locked tracks that they will be acted on. It is easy, I agree, to miss the little clock icons in the track panels. IMO they should stand out. I know the devs are reluctant to use colour except when absolutely necessary. I would say this is one of those times. There is a reason mixing desks have LEDs to indicate important functions (such as solo, PFL) that can mess you up if you forget they are on.

A very rough-and-tumble mock-up:

trackPanelSync.png (13.42 KiB) Viewed 4047 times

-- Bill

[steve]

I know the devs are reluctant to use colour except when absolutely necessary. I would say this is one of those times.

+1
I think that the reluctance is mostly because reliance on a colour change as an indicator is not accessible for people that are colour blind - however, as this is just changing the colour of an icon, if suitable colours are used then the indicator will be just as good for colour blind users, and much improved for users with unimpaired colour vision.

I also think it looks good

[waxcylinder]

I know the devs are reluctant to use colour except when absolutely necessary. I would say this is one of those times.

+1
I think that the reluctance is mostly because reliance on a colour change as an indicator is not accessible for people that are colour blind - however, as this is just changing the colour of an icon, if suitable colours are used then the indicator will be just as good for colour blind users, and much improved for users with unimpaired colour vision.

I also think it looks good

+1

I like the obvious visual contrast

WC

[Gale Andrews]

I'd also like to see some indication that Sync-lock is enabled in the ordinary selection shading

I don't mind the "regular" shading in the "primary" selection. When selecting a region the sync-lock-selection tiling (when improved) will adequately indicate that the tracks are sync-locked.

I agree with Bill, I think with the different regular or Sync-Locked selection colours for white space, the whole thing is already becoming too much like a chess board with too many confusing visual messages. We shouldn't IMO water down the meaning of the regular selection any more.

My concern is when the selection is just the cursor. In that case there is no indication in the sync-locked tracks that they will be acted on

This is Bug 222 started by Ed. I don't think a more visible Track Control Panel icon for Sync-Lock (if we have one) is a complete solution for this. We could use the suggested dotted border for Sync-Lock selection for the Sync-Lock cursor. I've promoted the issue to P3.

And I do hope they get around, before 2.0 release, to fixing the problem that was recently identified of Sync-Lock remaining on for the next project if turned on in the current one.

Can you explain a bit more why this is a problem, Peter? If as a power user I had turned Sync-Lock on, I think I would expect it to be on if I created a new project. There may be a weak case for per-track Sync-Lock, but even then I'm not sure it should default to off. If per-track, what criterion is used for setting the preference in .cfg on exit?

As for the HiVis Sync-Lock icon, I think the yellow creates confusion with the yellow colour for track focus, so -1 on yellow. If it's technically possible, I do think the icon should be the same as in the Edit Toolbar, so the clock should have a white background if we did not change its colour. I think as Steve sugested there may be a case for the "off" state for the Edit Toolbar Sync-Lock button to be a less strong white (or whatever) colour.



Gale

[billw58]

As for the HiVis Sync-Lock icon, I think the yellow creates confusion with the yellow colour for track focus, so -1 on yellow. If it's technically possible, I do think the icon should be the same as in the Edit Toolbar, so the clock should have a white background if we did not change its colour. I think as Steve sugested there may be a case for the "off" state for the Edit Toolbar Sync-Lock button to be a less strong white (or whatever) colour.

Well, I'd be OK with a white (rather than grey) interior for the clock icon if we can't have colour. The yellow, I think, works well with the yellow track-selection border. Rather than creating confusion, I think it could emphasize that the sync-locked tracks are also "selected" for sync-lock-enabled operations.

trackPanelSyncWhite.png (16.99 KiB) Viewed 4015 times

-- Bill

[Edgar]

And I do hope they get around, before 2.0 release, to fixing the problem that was recently identified of Sync-Lock remaining on for the next project if turned on in the current one.

Can you explain a bit more why this is a problem, Peter? If as a power user I had turned Sync-Lock on, I think I would expect it to be on if I created a new project.

Since it was my complaint in the first place, let me chip in my two cents worth…

Using SVN HEAD…
Start Audacity, turn sync lock OFF, generate some noise, add a label, save the project as "off", exit Audacity completely.
Start Audacity, turn sync lock ON, [generate some noise, add a label, save the project as "on"] (really, just do anything that causes the configuration file to be saved), exit Audacity completely.
Start Audacity, open the project "off".

Should sync lock be on or off? My contention is that the sync lock status of the project when it was saved should be restored when it is opened. Currently, even though sync lock was OFF when "off" was saved, it is ON when "off" is reopened because the previous time Audacity was used the status was ON.

As for creating a NEW project, I agree, that project should inherit the status currently in effect.

[Gale Andrews]

And I do hope they get around, before 2.0 release, to fixing the problem that was recently identified of Sync-Lock remaining on for the next project if turned on in the current one.

Can you explain a bit more why this is a problem, Peter? If as a power user I had turned Sync-Lock on, I think I would expect it to be on if I created a new project.

Since it was my complaint in the first place, let me chip in my two cents worth…

Using SVN HEAD…
Start Audacity, turn sync lock OFF, generate some noise, add a label, save the project as "off", exit Audacity completely.
Start Audacity, turn sync lock ON, [generate some noise, add a label, save the project as "on"] (really, just do anything that causes the configuration file to be saved), exit Audacity completely.
Start Audacity, open the project "off".

Should sync lock be on or off? My contention is that the sync lock status of the project when it was saved should be restored when it is opened. Currently, even though sync lock was OFF when "off" was saved, it is ON when "off" is reopened because the previous time Audacity was used the status was ON.

As for creating a NEW project, I agree, that project should inherit the status currently in effect.

See new topic in "Adding Features" (http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic ... 68#p108527).



Gale

[waxcylinder]

And I do hope they get around, before 2.0 release, to fixing the problem that was recently identified of Sync-Lock remaining on for the next project if turned on in the current one.

Can you explain a bit more why this is a problem, Peter? If as a power user I had turned Sync-Lock on, I think I would expect it to be on if I created a new project. There may be a weak case for per-track Sync-Lock, but even then I'm not sure it should default to off. If per-track, what criterion is used for setting the preference in .cfg on exit?

Gale,

this is the text of the recent FR that I transferred to the Wiki/PFR page on 16Oct10:

Moved to http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic ... 68#p108826

[Irish]

As a related observation on this topic, there appears to be a problem with the display of the sync-lock tiles on Windows XP, as the screenshots below show.

Audacity version 1.3.13 Alpha Oct 18 2010

Windows Vista Home Professional - SP2, displays OK.
Windows XP Professional - SP3, does not.

Note also the icon on the sync-lock button.

Vista

Sync-lock on Vista Home Premium - SP2.jpg (51.66 KiB) Viewed 3981 times

XP-Pro

Sync-Lock on XP-Pro SP3.jpg (129.48 KiB) Viewed 3981 times

POL

[Gale Andrews]

As a related observation on this topic, there appears to be a problem with the display of the sync-lock tiles on Windows XP, as the screenshots below show.

Audacity version 1.3.13 Alpha Oct 18 2010

Windows Vista Home Professional - SP2, displays OK.
Windows XP Professional - SP3, does not.

Note also the icon on the sync-lock button.

The XP SP3 image is not SVN HEAD from Oct 18 though is it (look at the old Chain icon in Edit Toolbar, instead of the clock).

Can you try the Oct 18 build on XP SP3? Is it the "Nightly" build from me, or one you built yourself?



Gale