Tried troubleshooting. Any other ideas?

[mollysitka]

This last week I had my students record radio shows directly through my intel Mac's (10.4.11) microphone into Audacity (1.2.5). I saved each project separately onto my desktop. Yesterday, I went to edit the extraneous sound. It was perfect, I saved the project 2x while working and came back today to add music and their sound effects to find the error 2 messages. Attached is a png of all the files it made (I didn't notice them until today).

Picture 4.png (52.83 KiB) Viewed 1949 times

I tried to restore the original file by doing the search for aliasfile (in TextEdit) in each copy of the aup files. Didn't find any. I can see some of the files, as suggested, but not hear sound or it cuts out. I just can't figure out how to restore the files now. I also looked for the temporary file as suggested with a crash, but can't seem to find that either....

Also, since I have 3 other projects to edit, how would you suggest I go about editing each one? I usually like to edit out the extraneous sounds (mistakes, etc) then add the sound effects, then add the music last. How should I save as I make changes? Obviously, Save Project is BAD. Do I export to WAV every time?

It took a lot of time to record these and the kids are excited so any help you can provide would be lovely.

Thanks!

[steve]

It is not so much a matter of "Save Project is bad", but rather, "Export is good".

If you are working on one computer, there is rarely any problem with saving projects, so long as none of the files used are moved, renamed, deleted or changed outside of Audacity.

When working with projects, there are certain issues that you need to be aware of, and this is particularly important if you are working with more than one computer. Audacity projects consist of a number of parts - there are data files, source files and a project file.

The file Quark08.aup is an Audacity project file. In fact, the project file is actually a plain text file that holds information about where the data files and source files that are required for the project are located. The .aup file also contains other information, such as volume envelope information, but it does not contain any actual audio data.

The folder Quark08_data contains data files - they look rather like small sound files, but actually contain the waveform display data as well as audio data. These files are created by Audacity as needed, and are numbered so that Audacity can identify them. It is the information in the project file (.aup) that tells Audacity what to do with all these data files.

The third kind of file are source files - When you open a file for editing, it may, or may not be copied into the data folder. Audacity has two ways of accessing audio data, one is by using data files in the data folder, but the other is to link to other audio files on your computer. If you use a section of an audio file that is on your computer and it is linked to rather than being copied, then if you move or delete that file, Audacity will no longer be able to access it and will throw up an error. Similarly, if you try to move the project to a different computer, but the project uses a source file that does not exist on the new computer, then you will again get an error.

Audacity can be forced into copying all source files by going to "Edit > Preferences > Audio Files" and select the "safe" options.

If moving a project from one computer to another, or even from one folder to another, it is very easy to break the project. If Audacity looses track of where all the component parts exist, or if some data is not available because it got left behind in the move, then the project will be broken.

To summarise, projects can be transported between machines, but a lot of care is needed to ensure that it does not get broken in the process.

In contrast to this, Exporting as WAV or AIFF produces uncompressed "normal" audio files that can easily and safely be moved from one computer to another. The only problem with Exporting, is that it will limit to some extent what additional editing can be done at a later date. For example, if you have 4 tracks of audio clips, when you Export, the exported audio will just be a single file, so you can no longer adjust the tracks individually.

Exporting, and "Export Selection" are excellent ways to back up your data.

I hope this is some help.

[kozikowski]

I'm a good deal more forceful about this.

[rant]
You have not completed a live sound capture session until you have exported a WAV file for editing later. Audacity Projects are misleading and brittle. Effectively, you can't move them anywhere or make changes to the machine on which they live. The forums are littered with people who tried to manage Audacity projects or the Audacity neighborhood and failed taking their show straight to the trash pile. I know exactly how to do this and I still had troubles moving a project between machines. Non techie users have zero chance.

If you're compulsive on top of everything else, make a copy of the WAV files onto Data CDs or Data DVDs. Backups consist of the same data on two different spinning platters (or other memory technologies).

You do need more hard drive space and bux for blank CD/DVD media, but that's the tradeoff. Audacity Projects are not a show. The first time you get an actual show is at the export step.
[/rant]

You know you can open up an AUP file in TextEdit and read it, right? Set TextEdit Preferences to Plain Text. If you do it on a really wide monitor, you can sometimes read where Audacity is expecting to find its files.

aliasfile='/Users/koz/Desktop/piano2.wav'

That's an actual entry from one of my projects and that's the location of my sound file. The exact location. If I move that sound file, my project will fail.

Koz

[mollysitka]

Hi Koz and Steve,

After doing some more reading and after reading your responses, I think I found where I screwed up. I did everything on the same computer (recording, editing, and saving) so moving files was never the issue. I believe the problem is from an Audacity tutorial I used. It said you could highlight pieces you wanted to take out and hit the delete key to remove sound bytes. After reading responses, I think this was not a good thing. I should have been using CUT instead. So I think wherever I deleted, it killed the files and left some weird hybrid behind. Not usuable at all. After doing a second radio show with the cut tool ( making a backup of the original first), it all went smoothly (and I saved the project as I went so that wasn't the issue either). Then exported as a WAV. Radio show done.

I did attempt to go into text edit and find the aliasfile with the find option but none came up, this may be due to the deletions? I think unless you have another idea that I will have to have the kids rerecord the Quark show. Not something I look forward to, but I believe I've managed to corrupt it enough, I can't get it back.

I had hoped that using Audacity would be easier than Garage Band. Though I had frustrations with GarageBand and had to redo many things, I never lost an entire file. Audacity was easier to use the second go around for my needs, but all in all will probably take me the same amount of time after having to rerecord. Dunno....

Thank you both for the explanations and assistance, it helped a great deal on the second go around.

[steve]

Getting to grips with the difference between "Save" (project) and "Export" (audio file) is probably the hardest part in Audacity.

It is generally recommended that new users have a play with the program, or try out some tutorials before starting any major projects, just to get the feel of it and avoid catastrophes like this. Now that you've got started with it, I think you will soon be using it like an expert.

[kozikowski]

<<<I think wherever I deleted, it killed the files and left some weird hybrid behind. Not usuable at all....I've managed to corrupt it enough, I can't get it back.>>>

So I went back to the WAV file I exported right after the live capture step and kept right on going. No serious damage done, and no performance lost.

<<<I never lost an entire file.>>>

Because you never had a file. You had a laundry list of intentions and instructions (AUP) and a large pile of tiny capture snippets. A project is not a show or a thing. It's an easily damaged cloud of files.

A successful, bulletproof show is created with an Audacity project in the middle surrounded by many WAV files. Each capture session as one or more safety WAV copies, several exported WAV files in the middle of the edit session, and the final show exported as WAV and delivered to the "client" along with a local safety copy. As you eliminate those steps, the possibility of permanently damaging your show goes up.

Also, it's probably good to know that Audacity 1.4 is about to be released and we 1.2 people are using two version old software. This is the response to the people demanding that 1.2 be patched to eliminate mistakes.

Nobody is working on correcting 1.2.

Koz

[mollysitka]

Not to be dense...why would I continually export to WAV when I am still working on a project? Doesn't one normally do this when they are at a finished product? You obviously are not dealing with an audio mixer here, but that doesn't make much sense to my little dinosaur brain. Doesn't that take up a lot of space? And doesn't it require you to constantly import back when you want to work on it again? Just curious, I would like to use this for other projects and would like to be able to use it in the safest and most streamlined manner possible.

In my case, it had to be using the delete key I mentioned earlier, as "saving project" didn't do anything harmful to my second radio show. I neither moved the files from my desktop nor moved from computer to computer. The only change I made from one show to the other was not using the delete key on my keyboard after highlighting portions I wanted out. Instead, the second time I highlighted and used the cut from the menu bar.

Off to work on the third radio show. Cross your fingers....

Thanks again for the clarifications and help.

[kozikowski]

<<<would like to be able to use it in the safest and most streamlined manner possible. >>>

Those two tend not to go together.

I have a horror of losing original performance captures. If you do that too many times in Hollywood, you get to become a plumber in Schenectady.

So, once again, right after a performance capture, Export as WAV... and create a single safety copy of the work (Dialog27Thursday.wav). Don't close Audacity, just keep right on doing everything just the way you were.

If there's a convenient stopping point, say lunch, export another wav file (InProgress27.wav) just as you leave for burgers and a Coke®, but don't close Audacity--or if you do, save the project and export a WAV.

Back from lunch, finish cutting the piece and export the final "client master" wav of the show. When you're sure that the delivery is complete, you can then go back and erase all the wav files and projects--assuming the "client" doesn't want them. Just remember that the "client" will not be able to use the project files later, only the WAV exports.

So yes, that does take up a little more time and space, so if you decide to skip these steps, that is your decision, but if you had done that, you would have been able to deliver that show with the original performances, even in the face of a badly damaged Audacity or a crushed project.

And yes, I understand you're dealing with students and not "clients," but still. Watching your show fall to pieces isn't fun no matter who you are.

Koz

[waxcylinder]

Koz, advice is (as always) excellent.

It only gets complicated and un-streamlined if you are working with multi-track projects. The problem there being that when you export the project, Audacity mixes&renders the multiple tracks into a single stereo pair. So if you need to retain the multi-track structure you would neeed to export each track separately.

WC