Recording problems at 40seconds in second track.

[tolwyn]

WARNING: lengthy post/question(s).

First time posting here...looking back on when i installed Audacity - didnt think I would have to come here asking any questions regarding problems. Audacity worked great upon fresh install , I have recorded several 4-8 track songs, just goofing off getting the feel for the prog. recorded some 20's jazz, country, 50 sock hop stuff, 60's surfer rock...went all the way thru the decades and tried laying down a multitrack recording per musical era. Audacity did WONDERFUL! even with the heavy metal sounds.

crystal clear sound, no skips, no latency issues..nada.

I am going thru a Mixing board (Behringer pmh1000) all the settings have not been touched since install.
Using a myriad of instruments, mics, effects boxes etc...

comp is:
2.8 gig proc(pent 4)
2gig ram
X-Fi blaster
MSI mobo ( 651fm or such.)
Windows XP(sp2)

ok. where do I start. basically, we recorded without any hitches for several sessions throughout a few months. nothing on the comp or program or mixing board or instruments(those that have settings) was changed...the room layed dormant for about 2 months, as far as recording goes. I still jam in the room using the amps and PA system...but nothing has been touched or changed in the way of settings. no need to.


last weekend we all sit down..fire everything up..we are all psyched to get started and record some jam sessions...we lay down the first track. sounds great and tight.

start playing and recording onto a second track with lead/slide guitar....at E-x-a-c-t-l-y 40 seconds audacity starts producing pops,clicks and crackles amnd they start to take over the recording( ONLY on the second track) upon playback.

we try switching cords......that didnt help....we tried another instrument....didnt help either..this is when we realize : "Hey!?...this is only starting to happen at 40 seconds.

so then we turned to windows/creative and audacity program troubleshooting. mind you ...this comp wasnt touched moved or updated...nothing was done to alter any settings, audacity and this comp worked awesome together for the first few months.

*Windows is SP2 and fully updated.
*Creative X-Fi sound card...brand new and fully updated also
*Reinstalled Audacity...2x
*changed sample rates,
*changed back and forth to windows mapper and sound card..all combos possible.
nada.... it still does it,.

*I tried removing all monitoring speakers , all equipment, plugging directly into the sound card and doing it the skeletal way with only 1 pure instrument...used several brand new cables too( even though we know it is a 'timed' issue that only starts from 40 seconds on the second track and continues spewing forth crackles until the recording is stopped)....nada , same thing.

*tried ( after reinstalling audacity) re-recording a first track of just a strumming guitar. then tried recording a second track...BAM..massive crackles and noise at 40 seconds. we also re-recorded 'other' first tracks with other intruments solo....then tried it again. same thing.

*we even tried recording 'nothing' on the second track just to see if the noise/crackles are present without anything going thru....it was indeed silent , mheh.

we are so lost here -

anyone have any experience or clue why this is happening out of the blue like this, no matter what we do...the crackles are ALWAYS starting at 40 seconds and dont stop until you turn it off!?

(sidenote)My hard drive is 7200rpm, pretty new and nearly emtpy with oodles of space.

help**

[kozikowski]

We'll probably have to chip away at this since I can't think of anything that could cause this problem.

The Behringer pmh1000) is an analog mixer. You're going into the Line In of your sound card, yes?

You lay down one track--3 minutes--and then go back later and record a second while you play the first? This is where it gets fuzzy because you're too close to the setup. Pretend you're trying to get your cousin in Phoenix to wire up a system exactly like yours. Then tell him how to use it.

When you set up your Audacity the first time, You have to change the Preference from 1 (Mono) to 2 (Stereo). Are all those settings the same as they were?

Magic things happen when you restart Audacity. Do you leave your computer on all the time and the first time you actually turned it off was that 2-month gap? Does everything else on the machine seem to work OK? Does it play a music CD just like it always did?

Is the computer connected to the internet all the time?

Koz

[tolwyn]

""...The Behringer pmh1000) is an analog mixer. You're going into the Line In of your sound card, yes?...."
Yes

""...You lay down one track--3 minutes--and then go back later and record a second while you play the first? ....""

Yes....we hit record, play away ( 1 instrument, first track, all alone.)...when done - we hit rewind( if you will) , listen and review....then plug in the next instrument/mic/whathaveyou and continue on, rinse and repeat. same as with several songs we have done in the past.

""...This is where it gets fuzzy because you're too close to the setup. Pretend you're trying to get your cousin in Phoenix to wire up a system exactly like yours. Then tell him how to use it.....""

funny thing is...my drummer has almost the same set-up and i gave him a gaming comp about 3 months ago..complete with a spare mixer,jamstation,all cables, sound blaster live, 2gigs ram, boston speakers and a 6800gt all wrapped on top of a 80 gig HD(7200 rpm also):) mheh.. he luvs it, and hasnt had a hiccup yet...( its the comp i used to record with audacity on in the past, until i bought 3 new comps.)

Im not sure if you are asking me to run thru the set-up, i got the same results pluggin directly into the sound card out of my Multipedal box, which provides a nice signal also, i just love the mixer control;)....i also tried an acoustic with a mic in the mic slot of card 'with' mic choosen on drop down menu for the heck of it, i tried to remove anything and everything out of the equation as best i could.....but here it is anyway.

Equip set-up and usage:
Amps and boxes on dedicated Power outlets/feeds on one side of room. computer on other side of room, mixer in middle of room on wall on a desk, comp and mixer on their OWN dedicated lines....keep all these ,at least,5 feet apart. Walk in Closet is converted into a 'seclusion chamber" this is where we record from, one-at-a-time, the player and his amp go inside for the recording.... keep all fans(ceiling fans OFF), DONT let the wife do wash or laundry or even change channels on the tv!(lol, that one goes over well here), no turning lights on and off, if its on, LEAVE it on, i pay for it anyway - keep heating or air conditioning off or totally on so it doesnt shut off or on during a session. ........when recording starts, kill the monitor. The light we get is ambient. large windows and glass doors to outside and skylights..no probs there.... jam during morning thru the afternoon. ending around dinner...so no need for 60,000 cycle bulbs to be on

Direct:
guitar>>>>Pedal>>>>>line in(sound card)>>>>with audacity open(drop down box: line in chosen)....hit record, check level, record couple seconds, stop,rewind,listen review make any gain/vol/recording level for that particular instrument adjustments etc, close out audacity.....start it up again, choose new, rinse and repeat with corrected levels. at end of playing, hit stop. get ready to do the same for the next track you wish to record.

With Equipment:
Guitar>>>>distortion box>>>Wah,VoLume pedal,Effects Multibox(timed effects after distortion)>>>>Mixer>>>>>Mixer Main to Line in (sound card).

Im not sure if that is what you were asking me...i hope so

""...When you set up your Audacity the first time, You have to change the Preference from 1 (Mono) to 2 (Stereo). Are all those settings the same as they were? .....""

we sure have...we only had this problem appear last weekend...we have been using audacity on this comp for several months, and on the comp i gave my drummer. much longer.

and yes...the setting are all back in the default postions. then..we uninstaleld and reinstalled. defrag'd the whole 9 yards.

"""...Magic things happen when you restart Audacity. Do you leave your computer on all the time and the first time you actually turned it off was that 2-month gap?.....""

ack no!...hehe....i always turn off the comps. the 2 month 'dormant' period i mentioned was referring to the 'room' being dormant from the entire band here recording..i still jammed and recorded with no probs in the time we all last met up until this past weekend. my 'stuff' is used everyday:)

"".... Does everything else on the machine seem to work OK? Does it play a music CD just like it always did?.....""

Yes, the machine is an awesome (yesteryear) gaming comp. but still runs FEAR nicely. it plays music nicely, love the X-Fi card and listening to Music fromt he comp thru the PA system is just simply great, does wonders for youtube and launchcast !

""....Is the computer connected to the internet all the time?.....""

it can be.everything on this comp has been shut off or down for about 1.5 years..prior to audacity being installed for the first time....i have many background services still shut off in an effort to keep much needed RAM free and clear for my gaming habits when i used that comp for gaming, but now its just the home recording comp...used for nothing else.

just doesnt make sense...it recorded beautifully for months and months...nothing was changed. it even records beautifully on the first track. but start a second or third(using a 'dummy' second) and bam...40 seconds in, it is all crackly and blah

actually thats a lie.....something was changed...about $100 worth of guitar cords and patch cables. ;

thank you for taking the time to review this. much appreciated.


(LATE EDIT)

sorry..i forgot to mention...we have tried other things too...(like i said, we were trying things that we knew couldnt be the problem but did it anyway)....we brought the sample rates down to minimal also. same results.

but again..everything is back to default and reinstalled fresh.

[kozikowski]

<<<when recording starts, kill the monitor. >>>

Excellent.

I know you've been typing for hours, but you missed a step--or you briefly glanced off it in passing (so to speak).

Given that sentence at the top, how is the artist playing to track 1?

I play solo instrument ("so low" nobody can hear me) and in a million years I couldn't start with a click track and end up on the same note if a lead track or drum track wasn't there to guide me..

Koz

[tolwyn]

? i dont know if i understand what you are asking. but we all do the same thing,... we just pick a channel on the mixer to plug into, hook up thru the mixing board via "line in" on the soundcard(creative X-Fi)...and just record.

I got home from work a little while ago and tried every other possibilty i could think of. i even disabled and uninstaleld the Sound card and tried thru the AC97 onboard sound...same thing.



sheesh this is frustrating.


I assume i just need to get rid of this Multimedia/gaming sound card, and get a 'real' soundcard for recording purposes, something in the area of an M-Audio with several channels and options to choose from.

/sigh

[kozikowski]

<<<i dont know if i understand what you are asking.>>>

Let me try different. Is your intention for one person to record all the different parts of a single, multi-instrument show, or just record a bunch of different songs one right after the other?

Koz

[tolwyn]

we just record songs by using each individual track for each individual instrument..one at a time. we dont record 2 things at once....only 1 "thing" at a time( this is all for home use and fun between us at home.....not a show, persay)

when i first installed Audacity on the old comp a lo-ong time ago, ( the comp i gave my drummer)...we tried putting the drums, me(on guitar) and the bass thru one track on audacity. it sounded 'ok'...but you couldnt edit or do anything to any 'one' instrument...everything was meshed onto one track....from then out - we always recorded one instrument at a time....on one track....each person plays solo for each track. this is in an effort to be able to edit and alter the sound for each instrument afterwards, of course;)

I noticed one thing though. The track spiralling into horrid crackling ONLY happens at 38.5 seconds( not 40 seconds as previously mentioned). The first track of me playing guitar solo came out beautiful last night...i played for about 5 minutes and recorded it...perfect, not a hitch.

then I hit record and started the second track recording.....i started to record and play along in-time with the first tracks music....and at 38.5 seconds into it...bam,crackling again..... so I removed the second track....placed the time cursor thingy on track one at the 30-second mark instead of starting at 0:00, and started to record from there.......when my recording reached the :40 second-mark of track one ( mind you i started recording at 30seconds so at 40 seconds I was only 'recording' for 10seconds ) i kept going until 2 full minutes.

went to play back..sure enough at exactly 68.5 seconds...the crackling started.

so indeed this happens in 38.5 seconds ev-e-r-y single time. not matter where i place the timeline - if i start playing along with track one and record on tracks #2,3,4,etc......and even start recording at 4:00minutes......bam....crackling at 4:38.5


grrr..

Wonder if i should just record a bunch of track 1's...and just blend them all later lol?

meaning.....Open "NEW" name it lead guitar...record 1 track..Save , name <projectA>
Close
Open "New" again...name it Drums....record track 1...Save, name <projectB>
Close
Open "New" again...name it vocals....record track 1...Save, name <projectC>
Close

Open "new".....grab the tracks ,paste them or whatnot into this 'new' file giving me 3 clean tracks on one screen.


hehehe...i know..i'm pulling at strings in the dark here...but it sounds feasible..just a huge pain in dee buttocks:(

[alatham]

This is really bizarre.

Let's back up for one second. Do you have one hard drive, or more than one?

If you have more than one, is your temporary directory in Audacity (edit -> preferences -> directories) set to be on the same drive you're saving to, or is it set to a different drive?

Also, how long is the first track of a new project, generally? They aren't all the same length, right?

Here are a few tests:
1) Start a new project, record a first track (for at least a minute or so).
2) Record a second track and ignore the clicking when it starts. Turn the gain on it way down, but don't mute it.
3) Record a third track over both of those. Does this track start clicking like the second one? At the same time?

Here's another:
Try recording a multi track project that's less than 40 seconds long, just keep adding new tracks to it until it either starts clicking or you're convinced it won't start.

[kozikowski]

<<<This is really bizarre.>>>

Right. You were going to walk in cold and save the day. So was I. It didn't work for me, either. They're going to take away both of our white hats unless we pull something out of the fire pretty quick.

And all this used to work. That's the wacky part.

Can you post a short sound track for us to listen to that shows the Mystery Track sliding into junk? Say ten seconds, five before and five after?

Can you do anything at all to change the time of distortion?

We're going to try a Hardware Test.

================================================
20071006
Windows Memory Diagnostic

http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp

Download mtinst.exe and run it to create bootable floppies.
Press T to run extensive all night.
================================================

This thing will also produce a bootable CD if you don't have a floppy drive, but that's a much more difficult process. Start the machine on the Floppy/CD and it will automatically start the memory check. It cranks through multiple passes of many different tests. Press T and it will get even more vicious. That's the one you leave all night.

I was shocked when this thing found a very subtle memory error on one of my production PCs. It had to run for several hours to find it and then only one test failed. None of my other machine were affected.

Koz

[tolwyn]

"....Let's back up for one second. Do you have one hard drive, or more than one?....."

just running on one comp at a time. and one HD.

"...If you have more than one, is your temporary directory in Audacity (edit -> preferences -> directories) set to be on the same drive you're saving to, or is it set to a different drive?....."

all defaults from clean reinstall reinstated. We never changed anything, it ran fine for months.

""...Also, how long is the first track of a new project, generally? They aren't all the same length, right?.....""
we have songs ranging from 30 seconds all the way up to a version of "Truckin" thats only like 6 or 8 minutes long, as opposed to 27 minutes of the original song done live heh. Most are about 3:30-4:00 minutes long.

""..Here are a few tests:
1) Start a new project, record a first track (for at least a minute or so).
2) Record a second track and ignore the clicking when it starts. Turn the gain on it way down, but don't mute it.
3) Record a third track over both of those. Does this track start clicking like the second one? At the same time?...."""

yes....we have done that multiple times and with differing "time-starts" in relation to the first track also, to mix it up a bit. last night, i just tried a simple mic and recorded me saying test1-2 over and over for 1:30 minutes and tried up to 4 tracks...first one was perfect...the rest..all started crackling at 38.5 seconds into it.

""...Here's another:
Try recording a multi track project that's less than 40 seconds long, just keep adding new tracks to it until it either starts clicking or you're convinced it won't start.alatham...."""

same results...track 1 is clean(even with the mixing board FILLED up with instruments)..everything else ( i stopped at 4 tracks) is crackling at 38.5 seconds into it;(


by kozikowski on Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:31 pm

<<<This is really bizarre.>>>

""...Right. You were going to walk in cold and save the day. So was I. It didn't work for me, either. They're going to take away both of our white hats unless we pull something out of the fire pretty quick.

And all this used to work. That's the wacky part....""

yeah..tell me about it...im dumbfounded to say the least. Im totally clueless here.



Can you post a short sound track for us to listen to that shows the Mystery Track sliding into junk? Say ten seconds, five before and five after?

""...Can you do anything at all to change the time of distortion?...""

I have done everything i can think of, even bypassing the mixing board and going in straight.

As far as a hardware test, this comp is in tip top shape. high quality parts. everything else works perfect....even the Home Video Studio program runs like a charm.

The only think i can think of....is something may have gotten corrupted between AC97( which has loong been disabled) and the X-Fi soundcard...i know those two companies products dont like to 'play' well together I just have never experienced it's notorious reputations for fighting over resources (even when ac97 is disabled).

For now I guess I'll just put this on the back burner until we get a 'real' audio card , something with dedication in design towards recording(m-audio)...not gaming and home theatre(X-fi).

its highly annoying knowing everything pumped out some nice sounding stuff,...then 'poof'.