Custom Tempo?

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Kifele
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Custom Tempo?

Post by Kifele » Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:36 pm

Hello,

Is it possible to set custom tempo?

I have a house music mix that I want to speed up to 147 bpm. Now, I know about "Effect-->Change tempo", but I'm not sure about that first field "From" ??

I guess if it is asked "from" "to" I should know how fast is that current mix, and then when I know that, I type for example 100 in the "from" field, and in field "to" I type 147.

Why is there that "from" field anyway? Shouldn't it be just "to" and you type 147 and click OK and see if it sounds OK for you or not? (ok, i am rookie, but it's just logic ...or maybe "rookie-logic" :) )

It's a mix for my wife's aerobic...blah, blah...

Thanking you in advance and looking forward to hearing from you :D

Kifele! (it's just my nick)

kozikowski
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Re: Custom Tempo?

Post by kozikowski » Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:25 pm

You may have discovered the shortcoming of that tool. I've never gotten software to tell me what the original BPM was--in several different audio programs, not just Audacity. If you know both numbers, then in programming land, it's a snap to calculate the changes. It's also relatively easy to do percentages, which I think is how several of the production tool work. Play it 10% faster. No problem.

Change it to 75 BPM from a cold start is rough.

Koz

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Re: Custom Tempo?

Post by kozikowski » Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:29 pm

Anybody with a watch can figure out what the original number is--if even you can do it. Dance tunes have a relief segment in the middle where the singer performs without the instruments. That drives software nuts. If they count rhythm beats, they will arrive at numbers 30% slower than what's there. Not trivial that one step.

Koz

Kifele
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Re: Custom Tempo?

Post by Kifele » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:46 pm

Thanks for your fast answer kozikowski.

I'm not sure I understand this: "Anybody with a watch can figure out what the original number is--if even you can do it."

If I understand it in a good way it means that I could take my watch and measure it by counting. If I understand it in a bad way it means that you are making fun of me? Or there might be a third way? Which one is correct? I'm not so good in English...

I'm asking the question about bpm because the DJ that did mixing for my wife's aerobics is not doing it any more. On every CD he used to sent us, there (on the cover) was: Track 1 (8 min mix - 114bpm), Track 2 (55min mix - 147bpm) and he did that every single time and it was always the same speed/tempo when she tries it at the gym, and she was 100% sure everything would be OK every time he give her a CD.

How did he do that? Is it only possible using that CD turntables (where you can set it to custom tempo) and record it in a real time, or is it also possible to do that using PC software?

That slowing down or speeding up using percentage scale is not accurate. I tried that, and the bottom line was I had to burn 3 CDs, because: "This one is too fast." , and tomorrow: "And this one is a little too fast, can you make it maybe 103,53%, because 104% was a lot faster?"... <-- That was my wife, and I believe her (after 10 years of doing it I'm sure she knows what tempo she has used to work with)

Ohhh ..., is that, what I've just written, understandable?

Thanks! Best wishes!

Kifele!

kozikowski
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Re: Custom Tempo?

Post by kozikowski » Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:53 pm

<<<If I understand it in a bad way it means that you are making fun of me? >>>

I'm not making fun at you. I can do that later if you want.

The professional DJ that created your mix music was using special CDs and LPs that had the BPM marked on the outside of the cardboard envelope or plastic sleeve. Mix People buy music because of title and BPM, they don't just pick a nice tune.

I wasn't kidding about sitting with the music and a watch. Complicated music is impossible for software to figure out.

The bad news is that even if you do figure out all the numbers, the music is never going to perfectly match. You probably need to do it by ear anyway. Play one song in one ear and the timeline in the other. Keep changing the beat until you stop being dizzy from the bad match.

If you're dizzy all the time, then we need to do this a different way.

Now I'm making fun at you.

Koz

steve
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Re: Custom Tempo?

Post by steve » Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:26 pm

Kifele wrote:If I understand it in a good way it means that I could take my watch and measure it by counting
Yes that's right.
Music for aerobics will generally have a strong beat, making it easy to count.

60 x (number of beats counted)/(time) = BPM

Example:
if you count 60 beats in 30 seconds, then the BPM is:
60 x 60/30 = 120 BPM


If you want to increase the BPM from 120 to 140, then;
(% speed increase) = 100 x {(required BPM) - (original BPM)} / (original BPM)
= 100 x (140-120)/120
= 100 x 20/120
= 16.666666666667

The easy way to do this in Audacity is to enter the "From" and "To" figures and let Audacity work out the %

The precision is to 3 decimal places, which I can guarantee is sufficiently accurate. The difference between increasing the speed by 16.666% and increasing the speed by 16.667% is so small that even a trained dancer or musician will not be able to tell the difference (less than 1 millisecond per minute).

To aid counting beats, a lot of music will group beats in 4's (this is known as 4/4 time). Such music can be counted in the following fashion:
1,2,3,4 - 2,2,3,4 - 3,2,3,4 - 4,2,3,4 - 5,2,3,4 - 6,2,3,4 ......
The number that is marked in bold indicates the number of musical "bars", and if there are 4 beats to each bar, then the number of beats = the number of bars x 4.

I have done a lot of work with dancers and they are notorious for changing their mind about what tempo they want a piece of music. They will say "I want it at 160 BMP", so you make it at exactly 160 BPM, and then when they come to putting their movement to the music they say "it's too fast" or "it's too slow".
One way is to work closely with the dancer, and be prepared to change it.... possibly several times.
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steve
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Re: Custom Tempo?

Post by steve » Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:32 pm

Some time ago, I posted a "feature request" for Audacity, which was to be able to customise the time line, and the "time format" (displayed in the selection toolbar in Audacity 1.3.x) so that it can be set to show "bars and beats" rather than seconds/samples/frames.

This suggestion did not receive much support at the time, but I think it is something that you would also find useful Kifele.
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Kifele
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Re: Custom Tempo?

Post by Kifele » Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:18 pm

Hi there and thank you very much Koz and stevethefiddle!

Thank you Koz for not making fun at me :) I supposed you hadn't, but I was not sure. Anyway, I wouldn't be angry if you had :)

OK, I'll try that step-by-step measuring and changing tempo and I'll get back to you (is this expression "I'll get..." used in a right place/time ?) I mean I would tell you about the result.

Thanks!

Kifele

steve
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Re: Custom Tempo?

Post by steve » Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:54 pm

Kifele wrote:is this expression "I'll get..." used in a right place/time ?
Yes, that is correct.
Good luck with it.
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