Audacity Crashed - recovered manually

[kozikowski]

<<<That's a question of educating them about projects...>>>

So you'll be handling all these then?

http://audacityteam.org/forum/viewtopic ... 717#p22917

Audacity in its present form violates a very important Systems Rule.

Wood's first rule in his original words: "You have to make it inconvenient to f*** up."

Koz

[Gale Andrews]

Jan said: <<<What Koz means, is that not many users expect they should not delete wav files they imported into Audacity. No-copy option as default for importing is nothing else than a trap.>>>

OK the old issue, and the same one about educating people about projects and dependent files. Why don't we complain about video editors where project dependency is normal?

I think a couple of the Team including me would like on balance to make copying in data the default. The remainder don't care or want to keep direct reading, so it won't change. Power users want fast importing of their 2 GB WAV files. On-demand summarising of uncompressed files which is a Google Summer of Code project, means you can start playing and editing that 2 GB file after a few seconds. If it makes it into 1.4, I'd be amazed if it was not default behaviour. It requires working from aliased files that need to remain available. End of the line I think for copying in to be default.

On the assumption people won't get rid of the original audio files until they have saved the project, a warning pops up in 1.3 if the project depends on other files. If we can get them to understand the dialogue (it's a bit intimidating and there is no default choice) then we've saved them from themselves. If they import the audio and delete the files before saving, we have a problem. The only way I can think to cope with that, if people have not read any help material, is to have a dialogue box with "don't show me this again" checkbox that pops up with every WAV or AIFF import. I think we owe it to users to have some solution like that, so I'll be making the case if it seems on-demand will be default way of importing. Power users of course need to accept the additional dialogue until they ask not to see it again. They may not like that.

Jan wrote:<< random numbering of the .au files>> Why is that used ?

I've never seen a very convincing answer.

Gale

[waxcylinder]

... Power users want fast importing of their 2 GB WAV files....

But as I've discussed with you before Gale - it is the power users who are the most likely, and the most able, to be setting their switches and settings to get the desired effect (and they are the ones most likely to be be reading and understanding the manuals).

So I agree with Koz and Steve that the default setting ought to be the "Safe" option where the external files are copied in to the project. This makes it far harder for the inexperinced user, and those who want to plug-and-play OOTB, to sceww up and lose their projects.

We would also probably spend a lot less time on the forum here responding to such folk who had "lost" their projects this way ...

WC

[steve]

On-demand summarising of uncompressed files which is a Google Summer of Code project, means you can start playing and editing that 2 GB file after a few seconds.

That sounds very exciting, but as WC says, "Power users" are a lot more likely to read the manual.
A lot of open source software faces the criticism that it is designed for programmers rather than for users. The overwhelming evidence on this forum says that the safe option is the better default option for users. Power users can change the default with a couple of clicks, novice users can avoid the problem of broken projects by going with the defaults, or reading the relevant documentation.

How about a pop up window on first use/installation that says something like:

[x] Copy uncompressed audio data on import (safer)
[ ] Read uncompressed import data without copying (faster on large files)
Do not change this setting unless you have read
the Audacity File Management information (link)

[Gale Andrews]

How about a pop up window on first use/installation that says something like:
[x] Copy uncompressed audio data on import (safer)
[ ] Read uncompressed import data without copying (faster on large files)
Do not change this setting unless you have read
the Audacity File Management information (link)

I think that's probably overkill - would not be relevant to people who import compressed files only, unless on-demand is extended to those as well. It should be done before import of uncompressed files, if at all.

Peter, you don't need to convince me that power users are much more able to change settings. But others on the Team point out that our help addresses/forums only see the people who are having trouble, so only see one side of it. They think power users are more numerous/important and that newbies should learn. Also dialogues can not only annoy power users but unless very simple/understandable may simply confuse newbies and be ignored.

If you think this is very important, join audacity-devel and state your case.... I think my vote is for on demand to be on by default if it gets into 1.4 (otherwise many people might never benefit from it). That means people must be told somehow they must not delete the original files before saving the project. This could also be added to the Welcome screen, which is thrown at you every launch time until you tell it to go away, but again no guarantee people will actually read it.


Gale

[jan.kolar]

<<so only see one side of it>>
So, I am on the other side. When running program for first time, the first thing I do is to open preferences.
So perhaps I immediately notice the trap and change it to the safe variant. I change the other to "ask", too.
Probably I forget about it immediately, but If I remember the wonderfull feature, I will change it back before (or after :-) ) my first import next week or month.
Unfortunately, I can go only through half of the preferences, because my intention was to DO something...

<<If you think this is very important, join audacity-devel and state your case.... >>
I think it is important, and my vote is for safe default.
In the case my vote is unheared or filtered out, and I am not going to bypass the filter by repeating my opinions on audacity-devel, though I have subscription there already.

[steve]

I think that's probably overkill

Probably but I did say "something like"

It should be done before import of uncompressed files, if at all.

I think that a pop-up before import would be more annoying than having an additional option in the set-up dialogue.
During set-up you are asked to select your language, so why not include other selectable options for your other default settings. This could also "advertise" new features such as "On-demand summarising of uncompressed files".

just an illustration :)

setup_screen.png (15.2 KiB) Viewed 1379 times

After all, the "Power User" is going to go to set these anyway, so why not during set-up?

They think power users are more numerous/important and that newbies should learn.

I can see why you do not wish to "dumb down" Audacity, but the point is that power users know how to change the defaults, new users want to get on and start using Audacity - that's how they learn and that's how they become power users. There may be no need for it to be a painful learning experience.

If you think this is very important, join audacity-devel and state your case.

Because I'm not a developer, I don't know one end of a C++ function from the other, and I certainly would not want to cause any friction among the developers - I would rather applaud their marvellous work. On the other hand, we can feed back "News from the Front" through you Gale

This could also be added to the Welcome screen, which is thrown at you every launch time until you tell it to go away, but again no guarantee people will actually read it.

Possibly a good idea, but sadly I suspect that the majority of users dismiss the Welcome screen immediately. I think the Welcome screen looks pretty good, but it's important that it remains distinctly different to the "Nag Screens" that are common on shareware.

[Gale Andrews]

Hi Steve

Thanks for doing a little mock up of our new First Run dialog.... my feeling is still that it could easily be ignored (so would not help unless "copy in" was default anyway); it's not relevant to everyone, and it's too removed from the actual import time - that's when people are thinking of the import and the message might more likely get across. I can see perhaps optional modules such as pipe scripting being loaded via a first run dialogue. Worth bearing in mind, but generally I think non-interface preferences are best left out of first run.

I don't know C++ either, that did not stop me, and not all the code depends on understanding it ..... I'd be glad to see at least one other regular contributor on devel list who is user-centred and not primarily a programmer. Different perspectives are useful and can influence things for the better, and prevent "geekishness" creeping in (quite a common criticism in the past even from people who actually know how to use the program).

Any ideas about how to make the Welcome Screen more likely to be read gratefully considered...

Gale

[steve]

Any ideas about how to make the Welcome Screen more likely to be read gratefully considered...

Make it quirky and amusing.
I like the way it used to have "Audacious" rather than just a boring old "OK" button.

[Gale Andrews]

Any ideas about how to make the Welcome Screen more likely to be read gratefully considered...

Make it quirky and amusing.
I like the way it used to have "Audacious" rather than just a boring old "OK" button.

Or something else to grab attention.... OK will think about it. We reverted the "Audacious" button to "OK" because feedback suggested visually impaired users would be confused and not be able to work out how to get rid of the thing.

Gale