Audacity Forum

I'm new to Audacity (and PC based audio in general) and have a couple of questions/problems.

I was reccomended Audacity to serve a particular purpose, but I'm usure about most of the terminology so using the HELP feature and indeed the search function here, has proven mostly fruitless for me.

I've been collecting live audio for over 15 years and with the advent of BitTorrent I have amassed several hundred GB of music data- mostly in lossless (.shn or .flac) format. I'm trying to put together a series of compilation CD's for a few friends and I've run into some issues.

Basically, when I burn the disc as normal (after converting to .wav) I have amplitude issues. With all of the varying sources of the audio (SBD, FM, AUD) and the varying volume levels of those sources, I have made a compilation CD that requires adjustment (sometimes significant) of the volume knob between most every track- very offputting.

I have imported the tracks into Audacity and "normalized". It appears to have worked (becuase the weak tracks are much stronger in terms of the wave pattern), but I can't seem to even play it without ALL of the imported tracks playing at once.

I guess what I'm after here is a bit of direction; it seems that this would be a fairly common endeavor with this software, but perhaps not.
I appreciate any and all assistance.

Many thanks.

<<<have imported the tracks into Audacity and "normalized". It appears to have worked (becuase the weak tracks are much stronger in terms of the wave pattern), but I can't seem to even play it without ALL of the imported tracks playing at once.>>>

I don't quite understand what you did, but "Normalize" just changes the overall volume so the hottest part of a track comes out to a preset level. It doesn't change the relationship between the songs. They all go up or down the same amount to make the worst one come out right.

To get a level adjusted music CD, you either need to normalize each song and then re-export it to a new sound file (recommended) or fool with the compressor/limiters (Effects > Compressor...) and hope you get the settings right. The settings will change significantly depending on type of music, but that technique you can use at the beginning of song one and just let it rip down all 18 songs.

It just occurred to me to ask how you imported or opened all your songs. If you did it wrong, then yes, they will all stack up top to bottom instead of left to right and that will play all of them at once.

Koz

kozikowski wrote: I don't quite understand what you did, but "Normalize" just changes the overall volume so the hottest part of a track comes out to a preset level. It doesn't change the relationship between the songs. They all go up or down the same amount to make the worst one come out right. Koz

After importing all the .wav files, I selected all of them and apllied the "normalize" command. It's my understanding that for the rest of the world, the term "normalize" does change the relationship b/w the songs- to normalize the amplitude so that one track is not significantly quieter/louder than the next/previous. I recently read that Audacity is ass-backwards and that the Amplitude function is the one that actually does what I'm after- Is this really the case?

kozikowski wrote: To get a level adjusted music CD, you either need to normalize each song and then re-export it to a new sound file (recommended) or fool with the compressor/limiters (Effects > Compressor...) and hope you get the settings right. The settings will change significantly depending on type of music, but that technique you can use at the beginning of song one and just let it rip down all 18 songs.Koz

If I were to normalize each track seperately, what would be the baseline for comparison b/w tracks?
Commiting a lot of time and effort only to "hope I get the settings right" sounds like a huge waste of time to me.

kozikowski wrote: It just occurred to me to ask how you imported or opened all your songs. If you did it wrong, then yes, they will all stack up top to bottom instead of left to right and that will play all of them at once.
Koz

Define "did it wrong".
All I did was choose to import the .wav files. When the dialog box opened, I selected all of the files that comprise the compilation and it stacked them one on top of the other.
I'd love to know how to add the from left to right as you mention above.

Thanks for your continued help with this matter.

This is possibly a bit easier with Audacity 1.3.4, but you can still do it in v.1.2

(For testing this out you may want to use just 2 or 3 short audio clips, then go onto the actual tracks when you are satisfied that it works - also, always work on copies of your tracks just in case anything goes wrong).

1) Import your audio tracks
2) Click on "Solo" for track number 1
3) Use "Amplify" and set the "new peak amplitude" to -6dB (this is basically the same as "Normalizing to -6dB, but the "Normalize" effect in v.1.2 is fixed at -3dB)

Normalise (ize) will change the amplitude of the track such that the highest peak level on the track will be at the set level, in this case -3 dB. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_normalization )
It is worth noting that two different audio tracks that are normalised to the same level will not necessarily sound the same loudness. If one track has one or two exceptionally high peaks, then the average level after normalising will be noticeably lower than a track that has a more uniform level.

This first track is going to be your reference track for setting the levels of the other tracks.

4) Now click the "solo" button on track 1 again, so that it is not selected, and click the solo button on track 2.
5) Adjust the "volume slider" on track 2 so that it sounds the same volume as track 1 (you may need to switch between track 1 solo and track 2 solo a few times to get them to match)
6) Listen carefully to track 2 to ensure that you have not amplified it so much that it distorts. If it does distort, you may need to set your reference track at a lower level, but - 6dB should give you plenty of room.
7) Check that you have track 2 selected (all of it) and from the file menu select "Export Selection as WAV"
8) You may now close track 2, or just "mute" it, and proceed with the next track.

Depending on the actual audio, and if any tracks contain high peaks, you may be able to amplify all of the tracks a little, but it is probably easier and safer to leave them all a little on the quiet side.

Thanks stevethefiddle! I'll give it a shot when I get home tonite.

Still curious though how to import in a left to right manner rather than stacked. -Alright, this is driving me nuts. Can anyone help me with this?

Import your first track, then move the cursor to the far right hand end of the track with the double arrow icon (like the FF on a tape/CD player). Then import your second track - etc.

WC

waxcylinder wrote:Import your first track, then move the cursor to the far right hand end of the track with the double arrow icon (like the FF on a tape/CD player). Then import your second track - etc.WC

Thanks, but I tried that and they still stack. I attached a screenshot.

Yup, your're right FW - I just tested it in 1.3 too and it does the same thing there still.

What you can do is to use the Time-Shift tool to align your tracks one after the other - a bit fiddly, but it does work. Just select the track you want to move, click on the Time-shift tool the icon with the short horizontal bar and an arrowhead at each end then move the track. When you've done, click on the "Selection tool" the I-girder.

Another way you can do it is via cut&paste of the tracks.

WC

<<<Another way you can do it is via cut&paste of the tracks.>>>

Actually, I think cut and paste may be the only way you can stick two songs on the timeline one after the other. But do you want that? The task is to adjust the relative volumes between songs so they all come out right on a music CD.

So we're talkin' at best, batch normalizing.

Normalizing to -3 is not terrible. Most of my captures of radio shows are done to that level. That means the loudest part of whatever is selected will end the process at -3 with every other part of the performance falling below that.

By the way, it might help sanity to convert your timelines to dB so we're all singing from the same hymnal.

Open up one short, simple song.

Black Down Arrow on the Left > Waveform dB. Now the flashing light meters, the tool nomenclature, and the timeline all match. I don't know who thought it would be a good idea to measure audio in percent, but it's not.

Grab the bottom of the timeline and pull down so the waves get taller. That increases the accuracy of the measurements. The numbers on the left get much more detailed if you have a big enough screen. Now you can see where this mysterious -3 actually is (if you squint).

Apply the normalize filter to the whole song (you may have to Select All for it to work) and watch the waveforms change size to accommodate the filter. Export the newly adjusted song as WAV (Big, Uncompressed, no damage) or MP3 (much smaller, destructively compressed, can be significant damage).

Repeat for billions of songs. Unless you have celebrity songs with great extremes of loudness, all the separate song volumes will be within spittin' distance of each other.

The real job is to batch process billions of songs to the same level--hopefully unattended.

I have no idea how to do that. Post back if you figure it out.

Koz

kozikowski wrote:
Actually, I think cut and paste may be the only way you can stick two songs on the timeline one after the other. But do you want that? Koz

I just want to simply see them displayed as such. :

**I'd like to be able to view a folder's (a compilation CD or podcast, etc) worth of tracks.
**In a linear (left-to-right) order if possible.
**If the zoom is out far enough, and perhaps with the aid of graphic delineation (a line or change in hue to represent track breaks), a clear relationship b/w tracks in terms of signal strenth (<-possible nomenclature error) is evident. Then the problem tracks can be "addressed" with aplitude adjustments.

This was all possible with a program I used several years ago called Fuerio! But it does not recognize my drives, and it's Track Editor function does not supprt saving the work as a project until after it burns.

kozikowski wrote:The task is to adjust the relative volumes between songs so they all come out right on a music CD. Koz

If by "right" you mean that you don't have to have the volume knob on your car stereo, etc. turned up way loud to get some volume. Exactly.

This has been a specific problem for me recently because of some mp2 files that are being broadcast via the BBC and traded on various live music trackers. When the mp2 is decoded to .wav the proccessing is [email protected] instead of the std 1411kbps, additionally the amplitude is way, way weak. The files are super crisp sounding and contain no digi noise or perceptable distortion or compression. They sound nice, just real quiet when taken to .wav. I've used Audacity to change the bitrate to 1411kbps but the track is still very quiet. Next I imprted a track with known good volume as a comparison. I then increased the amplitude of the mp2 sourced track significantly -avoiding distortion.
Then I then kept importing files and dragging them in the time line to the end of the preceding (above) track as outlined by waxcylinder (thanks). I made amplitude adjustments to other tracks as needed, added fades in/out of applause, cut out areas of dead air and chat, then I saved the project.

Now I want to burn it to CD and give it a listen. I get the impression that I will have to export as .wav so I started this and the est. time was +55 minutes! can this be? Is it going to export each of the tracks as I edited them? or will it export it a one-single large .wav file that I will then have to split?

The word intuitive doesn't exactly come to mind when using this application.

kozikowski wrote: Most of my captures of radio shows are done to that level. Koz

Are we talking about music performances? Do you trade?

kozikowski wrote:Repeat for billions of songs. Unless you have celebrity songs with great extremes of loudness, all the separate song volumes will be within spittin' distance of each other.Koz

At the risk of exposing my newbieness, what is a celebrity song?