Initial Record Level Always Too Hot

Audacity Help Forum Windows
1

I’m recording vinyl using a Sanyo turntable and a “DJ Pre II” pre amp feeding a Roxio USB dongle.

The problem is that Audacity seems to ignore my initial record level and begins recording hot - often popping the meter into the red. I’ve found a record level between 0.8 and 0.9 is best, depending on the vinyl and the pressing. But when I click Record (or press “R”) Audacity records at a higher level. To work around, while recording, I change the record level (to say 0.5 or anything else) then return it to 0.9 - and the level is fine. Then I have to re-drop the needle without stopping the recording. If I stop and restart the recording the initial level is hot again.

[I tried to attach an 80-second video showing the controls, but it’s too large. Happy to email if someone is interested.]

After recording the video, I tried to trouble shoot (this part is not on the video). I noticed that no matter where I set the record level (0.9, 0.8 even 0.0 (zero)) Audacity’s initial record level is hot, probably near 1.0. It totally ignores the record level slider. I’ve looked in Edit > Preferences > Recording and find no setting that would affect the initial record level. I’ve checked FAQ, this Forum and the Start Up tutorial but have found no answers.

I’m running Win10 64-bit and best I know, all drivers are up to date. Audacity version is 2.3.2 but I first noticed this issue six months ago using version 2.2.2.

While I have a work around, I’d sure rather find a fix or be schooled as to what I’m doing wrong.
Thanks.
Frank M

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Make sure [u]Windows Enhancements[/u] are turned OFF.

I’ve found a record level between 0.8 and 0.9 is best,

Digital recording doesn’t have to be that “hot”. It’s better to shoot for -6 to -3db (about 50-75%), leaving headroom for unexpected peaks. You can use the Amplify or Normalize effects to boost after recording.

Most (or all) of your volume adjustment should be done with the analog control on the preamp if you have enough control range. Generally, you can leave the Audacity slider at 100%.

feeding a Roxio USB dongle

Does that have line inputs? Regular “USB Soundcards” only have mic-in and headphone-out so you have to make sure.

I assume you know that ART makes the similar USB Phono Plus.

3

Doug, I really appreciate the detailed reply. My reply, in order:

I followed the instructions re: Windows Enhancements, but didn’t find any Enhancements for the Recording Device. No enhancements were active for the speakers, but I made sure and disabled “all” just in case.

The recording level: I followed your suggestion to leave the record slider at 100% (1.0) but that adds a wrinkle. With that setting I have to turn the trim on the pre-amp all the way down to -10b - the bottom. The Audacity record meter then rides around a -6db to 0db - the meter is mostly yellow with some red spikes - but I’ve go no wiggle room.

FYI, here’s how I arrived I my “optimal” of 0.8 to 0.9. Starting at the pre-amp LED, I ride the level so there is some flicker but no clipping (red). Then when I set the Audacity slider at 0.8 to 0.9 it gives me a record level of around -6db. As I said, this seems to work but it has to be tweeked after hitting “Record” or "Start Monitoring.

The Roxio device has red & white RCA audio jacks (plus yellow video and a composite, I’m guessing). It was part of a Roxio’s VHS transfer package. So, the device seems to have the basics, although I sometimes wonder if it’s only a cheap consumer product.

Finally, yes I know of the ART USB Phono Plus. I opted to save a few bucks, passing up the on/off switch and monitoring options.

I don’t know if this info gives you any additional clues but I want at least to honor your reaching back to me.

May I add an element that may be unrelated? With every recording I must use Effect > Normalize > Remove DC offset. Is that typical? If I don’t any edits I make - eg to trim front and back ends of a track or to remove a vinyl pop - leads to an audible pop and a small spike in the wave form.

I’m sorry this is so long winded. I’ll be sure to kick in some case to Audacity. Thanks again.
Frank

4

If you’re hitting 0dB you’re probably clipping. It’s very unlikely that you’re hitting 0dB without “trying” to go over. And, it will depend on the record. Some records are cut louder than others.

FYI, here’s how I arrived I my “optimal” of 0.8 to 0.9. Starting at the pre-amp LED, I ride the level so there is some flicker but no clipping (red).

It would be “optimal” to leave some headroom. You can amplify later (digitally).

If you run the Amplify effect (after recording) it will indirectly tell you how much headroom you have. For example, if it defaults to +3dB, your current peaks are -3dB (and you have 3dB of headroom). If it defaults to 0dB (before Normalizing or Amplifying, you’re (probably) clipping.

…I thought you said the slider wasn’t working. (That wouldn’t be unusual for a USB device.)

I’m not clear if you can adjust the levels down lower or not. If you can’t get the levels down far enough you may need an inline attenuator like [u]this[/u] or [u]this[/u].

The Roxio device has red & white RCA audio jacks (plus yellow video and a composite, I’m guessing). It was part of a Roxio’s VHS transfer package. So, the device seems to have the basics, although I sometimes wonder if it’s only a cheap consumer product.

OK, good. Those are line level inputs. But, “line-level” is loosely defined and you might be getting a hot signal out of the preamp or the Roxio inputs might be unusually sensitive. And like I said records will vary, and phono cartridges will vary, so it’s too bad you don’t have a wider analog adjustment range.

I think a lot of those audio/video capture devices only work with the supplied software so I’m surprised it works, but it does!

May I add an element that may be unrelated? With every recording I must use Effect > Normalize > Remove DC offset. Is that typical? If I don’t any edits I make - eg to trim front and back ends of a track or to remove a vinyl pop - leads to an audible pop and a small spike in the wave form.

That’s a “defect” or “weakness” in the Roxio device. Since it adds to the positive or negative half of the waveform, you have to record at a lower level to avoid clipping. Depending on how bad the DC offset is, that could be significant.


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Once you get these issues ironed-out…

Audacity has Click Removal (automatic) and Repair (manual) “effects” that help to remove vinyl clicks & pops. The regular Noise Reduction effect can remove low-level hiss & hum.

Or, [u]Wave Corrector[/u] is a (now FREE) specialized application for vinyl clean-up. I also use [u]Wave Repair[/u] ($30 USD). Wave Repair can do audibly perfect repairs on most (but not all) clicks & pops. The advantage & disadvantage is that it’s manual. It only “touches” the audio where you identify a defect, but it can take me a whole weekend to fix-up a digitized LP.

[u]This page[/u] (by the developer of Wave Repair) lists some other software options and it has tons of information about digizing LPs.

On older “dull sounding” records, I’ll use the Equalization effect to boost the highs.

Personally, I ONLY digitize records when I can’t get the CD or MP3 because even after click removal and EQ, etc. you almost never get “CD quality” sound.

5

Hi Doug, a week has passed and I think I’m well on my way, thanks to your help. Once you suggested my Roxio device was suspect (leading to a DC offset) I decided to get another capture device. Technical Pro, $20 at B&H Photo, has RCA-to-USB and reverses for PC output (USB-to-RCA). The offset problem is gone. And, maybe, I’m getting slightly better quality - though it’s hard to tell with 45 RPM mono vinyl that’s well worn.

The other major issue was setting correct levels when the Audacity record slider is set to 1.0 (100%). That problem seems to have gone away by itself, even before the new capture device. Just a gremlin. Or solar flares! :smiley: Again with your advice, I now set the slider to 1.0 and adjust levels with the pre-amp. Everything is good.

Next, I need to work on my click removal skills. I haven’t had much luck with Audacity’s Removal or Repair. If the clicks are pronounced I’ve been manually picking them out or knocking the volume of each one down. Not fun. By the time I get to my “serious” vinyl albums I hope to do it with software.

Haven’t reviewed the Wave Repair advice page yet, but that’s next on my list.

Again THANK YOU!
Peace and Good Health
Frank