Yes, testing confirms that, and the three ADPCM formats also produce exports that are audio-data-identical to the original import.
GSM 6.10 - not so.
Gale
Rather than lengthen the dropdown menu for “Save as type” I would actually propose shortening and reordering it thus:
WAV (Microsoft) signed 16-bit PCM
WAV (Microsoft) 32-bit float
AIFF (Apple) signed 16-bit PCM
MP3 files
M4A (AC) files (FFmpeg)
Ogg Vorbis files
FLAC files
other uncompressed files
other compressed files
external program
custom FFmpeg Export
This would place (what I am guessing) all the most commonly used export formats clearly visible above the line.
The below the line items would then encourage exploration by users who want any other format.
Peter
OK maybe not “obscure” but almost certainly less frequently used or needed by the majority of our users. 
I did some research on Forum postings over the past 12 months:
- For ADPCM we have 12 threads - but only 2 of those appear to be “I want ADPCM” export but can’t find it.
2)For *-LAW we have 5 threads of which 3 are “Can’t find …”
So not a huge amount really (we get far more posters who get stuck in Pause mode and can’t figure out why effects and commands don’t work - and we’ve yet to fix that …).
I really do think that Leland has improved things a lot in this regard by integrating the options onto the main dialog and removing the “Options” button which many folk obviously failed to spot. Perhaps we should wait until 2.1.2 is out with this new Export interface and see if the situation in this regard improves (or even worsens) …
Peter.
Idea 1:
Perhaps we could provide a bit more information about the “standard” formats, particularly about those that don’t have options. For example:
Idea 2:
Perhaps “standard” WAV export could have an option for sample rate - default: Same as project.
If we also have “idea 1”, it could recommend 44100 Hz for widest compatibility.
Idea 3
Format choices:
-
- WAV (Microsoft) signed 16-bit PCM
- Other WAV (options)
- AIFF (Apple) signed 16-bit PCM
- Other uncompressed files
- FLAC
- Ogg Vorbis
- MP2____________________
- MP3 [requires ‘Lame’]
- (external program)_______
- M4A (AAC) [requires FFmpeg]
- AC3 [requires FFmpeg]
- … [requires FFmpeg]
Searching like that won’t give you the correct result here. I know how many of these I answer and I have seen Steve answer them too. And that is just the Forum, there is feedback@, the -users list, and direct user e-mails/PM’s to me too.
This might be a better query http://forum.audacityteam.org/search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords="other+uncompressed+files"&start=10 but probably it needs a search with a proper search engine if it is necessary to have an exact figure.
I agree the “Options…” button was part of the problem but clearly what we have now is sub-optimal with a mish-mash of formats within “Other uncompressed files”.
Most of these are “uncompressed” as defined in the Manual (but users may think of them as compressed), then there is at least one compressed/lossy and another compressed/lossless.
Gale
I think that has some merit too, though I think WMA ought to be in the uppermost list. There are still many users who don’t explore beyond Windows Media Player.
However if long lists are a problem for users, the above doesn’t address the problem of “Other uncompressed files” (or whatever) being a necessarily ambiguous moniker and it hiding three often needed formats within a complicated list of obscure formats.
Another possible problem with the above is that users wanting AC3 and AMR (and WMA if not in the uppermost list) may look in the convoluted “Custom FFmpeg Export” rather than in “Other compressed files” that would give them a simpler interface.
At the moment I still prefer my idea which makes the uppermost list less generic and contains direct access to items that most users want. The lists are going to be “long” in one of the dropdowns whatever we do.
Gale
I think that might be better than the bald “no format specific options” which almost looks like it is “not” recommended. There is a risk of having too long a text.
Depending if we change the uppermost list, the text for 16-bit and 32-bit float WAV could also say where to look for other common WAV encodings.
I’m not sure. Definitely some users don’t “get” that project rate determines the export rate and mess their work up by using Set Rate in the track dropdown. But changing the project rate temporarily is not a big deal as long as you close that project and start over on the next one.
If we were to have an export sample rate control I would expect it to apply to all formats.
Gale
Variation of Idea 3
Format choices:
-
- WAV (Microsoft) signed 16-bit PCM
- Other WAV (options)
- AIFF (Apple) signed 16-bit PCM
- FLAC
- Ogg Vorbis
- MP2
- Other built-in formats____
- MP3 [requires ‘Lame’]
- (external program)_______
- M4A (AAC) [requires FFmpeg]
- AC3 [requires FFmpeg]
- AMR (narrow band) [requires FFmpeg]
- WMA (version 2) [requires FFmpeg]
- Custom FFmpeg format___
Why not?
What’s the question? My comment was because I thought you proposed a sample rate control only for WAV 16-bit PCM.
Gale
Thanks, Steve.
So this lets us keep the uppermost list at 14 items, but removes WAV 32-bit float as an explicit choice.
Does your “Other WAV” include WAVEX?
It may be better to say “requires LAME” in the Format Options pane, and only when LAME has not been detected.
The main problem with this may be that “Other built-in formats” looks from its position like it will be compressed formats whereas technically it will be mostly uncompressed. I think it should be above AIFF, whatever we call it. I can’t see many folk guessing RF64 will be in it as your suggestion stands now.
Otherwise I think this is the best alternative so far to my suggestion.
I could instead add just these two to the list as currently shipped, for a total of 16 items:
RF/WAVE 64 (for > 4 GB)
WAV/WAVEX *-Law/ADPCM
Though I think less good than separating *-Law and ADPCM.
Gale
I did, but your reply made me think, why not set the sample rate for exporting in the export dialog rather than always using the project rate?
Because you would have to run the sample rate conversion routine every time you save?
Only if the sample rate selected for exporting is different from the sample rate of the tracks being exported, which is the same as now.
It took me a lot of negotiating with Leland to get the 32-bit float WAV included in the top-level menu - and I would be extremely loath to lose it from there 
Peter
I appreciate your point waxcylinder, but I don’t think that we have 32-bit float WAV, and u-law WAV, and A-law WAV, and 24-bit WAV (the default for most high-end audio hardware, and for ProTools). and 8-bit PCM (widely used in old games), and ADPCM WAV … all as top level menu. even though there are reasonably strong arguments for all of them. I think that 16-bit WAV has to be a top level menu item/ My proposal makes all other WAV formats “top-level”. Yes it’s a compromise, but I think a better compromise than burying so many of the “other” WAV formats as deeply as we currently do.
Yes, that last sentence is the problem we’re trying to address.
I think Peter’s idea falls down on the problem of not listing all the major FFmpeg exports.
I assume the rationale for 32-bit float WAV is for export to Click Repair or to other DAW’s for processing?
We can always add 32-bit float WAV to Steve’s idea, but then that is only one less item than the minimum in my plan, which gets RF64 (also important) and many of the other important uncompressed as explicit top level items.
We could include 8-bit PCM in one item that also had ADPCM and -Law if we had a top level item such as "WAV 4-bit/8-bit" but that is probably less clear. Given we are only talking about the difference between 14, 15 or 16 items, there may be a case for more items and more specificity in the top level.
Gale
No that’s just a spin-off - the rationale is to make a 32-bit WAV export of a raw capture before any processing as the ultimate backup. It’s what we recommend doing in the workflows.
Peter.
Here’s a user that would have benefited: https://forum.audacityteam.org/t/how-do-you-export-at-lower-sample-rate/40182/1
Even if sample rates of exports were set in the export dialogue, I still think default behaviour should be as now that the rate of an empty project changes if necessary to the rate of an imported file. I do think there could be a preference to turn that behaviour off.
If sample rates of exports were set in the export dialogue, would that export rate be set to the last used rate, or would it be tied to the active project rate? The latter would be akin to what happens now with no such setting.
Sometime, a sample rate choice will have to be added to Chain exports because the feature is too clunky without that. I guess that will be the time to consider if we want the main export dialogue to have a sample rate choice. In favour, those who have used other audio software probably look in the export dialogue for sample rate and wonder what determines the rate. Against, it adds extra complication to the standard export dialogue.
On present thoughts I would be mildly in favour of choosing export sample rate in the export dialogue.
Gale