Does playback level indicator affect end result?

Hi, first time here. :slight_smile:

Using 2.2.2.

I’m normalizing some MP3’s. Everything seems fine but before I transfer those to a CD I notice on the playback level graph that the volume goes into the red.

audacity-playback-level.jpg
When I adjust the volume (indicated by blue arrow) I can hear the volume go down on the speakers but even if I just move it to 97 then nothing shows on the graph. In other words, I thought I’d bring it down just to where it wasn’t red-lining but the slightest adjustment completely clears the graph.

So, not sure if any of that affects the end result.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Daniel

Let’s start with finding the actual peak level… If you run Amplify it will indirectly give you the peak level. For example, if Amplify defaults to -1dB your current peak is +1dB (potential clipping). If it defaults to 0dB or any positive number you are OK. Nothing bad happens when you get close to 0dB.

As you may know MP3 is lossy compression. The wave shape changes making some peaks higher and some peaks lower. So, it’s not unusual to Normalize to 0dB before making the MP3, and then find your MP3 goes over 0dB. Some people normalize to -1 or so to prevent that. The MP3 isn’t actually clipped, but if you play it back at “full digital volume” you’ll clip your digital-to-analog converter. (As far as I know, this slight distortion is never audible but it would be “best practice” to avoid it.)

If it goes over 0dB and you convert to a “regular” WAV file or if you make an audio CD, it will be clipped.

If you are making an audio CD you should avoid the lossy MP3 step
(unless you are stuck with MP3 originals). Export to 441.kHz, 16-bit, stereo WAV, which is the same underlying format as audio CD. (But, CDs don’t actually have WAV files.)

It is OK to burn the MP3s directly on a CD as “data” or “computer files” if your player can play it. Of course any computer can play MP3s from a CD, but most audio CD players cannot.

DVDdoug, thank you for responding.

I ran it through Amplify, the panel appeared and in the top part, Amplification (dB), it showed 7.698 (no negative sign so I assume positive). Below it, New Peak Amplitude (dB), it showed -0.0 . I pressed ‘OK’ and what I had thought was within parameters was now covered with dark blue from top to bottom. I may be wrong but I don’t think it should look like that. :smiley:

Given these numbers, where would the adjustment be made?


Re some of what you stated:

Yes, the originals are MP3s (320). I’ve burned some of them on to CDs in the past and they played well on both home and car players. It may be the case that they don’t play on some players but thus far I have not encountered that. By the way, I have burned WAV files also.

And if I interpret correctly, the notion of ‘converting’ an MP3 to a WAV is something that even the Borg would look at askance? :slight_smile:

Daniel

Sorry, this might turn into a long post…

When you normalized, what settings did you use? And, what are you trying to accomplish by normalizing?

…The strange thing is, if you normalized I assume you normalized to 0dB or -1dB and you should be close to 0dB (even after MP3 compression).

I ran it through Amplify, the panel appeared and in the top part, Amplification (dB), it showed 7.698 (no negative sign so I assume positive).

Well, that means your current peak is -7.9dB and that’s plenty of headroom and I’m not sure why your playback meters are going “into the red”…

if your peaks are -7.9dB (or any negative value) you don’t have a problem!

Below it, New Peak Amplitude (dB), it showed -0.0 .

Yes, that’s normal. Amplify defaults to whatever gain (or attenuation) is need for 0dB peaks. So for example, if you run it twice in a row you’ll see 0dB of amplification (no change) and 0dB for new peak amplitude. (So nothing happens the second time if you again accept the defaults.)

and that’s I pressed ‘OK’ and what I had thought was within parameters

Since you are “only” peaking at 0dB and you’re not clipping, amplification won’t change the wave shape or cause distortion.

was now covered with dark blue from top to bottom. I may be wrong but I don’t think it should look like that.

Some modern CDs are "brick wall limited’ and they look like a solid blue block. But 8dB of gain is quite a bit louder and it might be “too loud” compared to other albums/tracks. And, the reason for the brick-wall limiting is (usually) to “make it loud”, so they don’t usually leave any headroom… It’s usually slammed right-up to 0dB.

\

More about MP3s…

When you open an MP3 in Audacity it gets decompressed. If you re-export to MP3 again you are going through another generation of lossy compression. And the “damage” does accumulate. So if you are going to change anything, it’s best to go-back and start-again with the uncompressed original. Then compress ONCE as the last step.

Since you can’t predict the peak levels for the MP3 copy, keeping the peaks at (or below, 0dB) is a 2 or 3-step process. But again, your particular file does NOT have this problem…

Personally, I don’t worry about the MP3 going slightly-over 0dB, but some people do. I don’t hear any distortion from that and I’ve already accepted the fact that MP3s are lossy and I don’t expect “mathematical perfection” (although it can often sound exactly like the original)

But if you want to always avoid clipping, the easiest solution is to normalize to -1 or -1.5dB. Then after exporting to MP3, open the MP3 and run Amplify to check the peaks (as above). Usually it will be OK, but if not re-open the origin uncompressed file, normalize to a lower level this time and re-export to MP3, and throw-away the 1st MP3. (And, you can calculate the normalization level to get it just-right.)

Or if you always want it “perfectly normalized” to 0dB you can Amplify once to 0dB making note of the default change. Export to MP3, re-load the MP3 and note the “error”. Re-open the uncompressed original, run Amplify again but this time change the default to take the “error” into account.