Plugin Conflicts and When to Compress

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Plugin Conflicts and When to Compress

Permanent link to this post Posted by robing34 » Wed May 24, 2017 11:19 pm

I recently installed the RMS-Normalize plugin and when I clicked ok, nothing happened. No pop up saying it was working. I waited, like, 15 minutes, etc. Bupkes. And I couldn't see any difference in my wave pattern from my recording. Still, I tried compressing and limiting it, and when I did the ACX check, the sample failed the peak (by how much I forget).
I have SetRMS installed. Could there be a conflict between the two?

I also noticed the debug button on the RMS-Normalize window and clicked it. The following appeared in the box:

error: bad argument type - NIL
Function: #<Subr-/: #9516af8>
Arguments:
0.125893
NIL
Function: #<FSubr-LET: #95115c8>
Arguments:
((GAIN (/ TARGET LEVEL)))
(MULT SIG GAIN)
Function: #<Closure-NORM: #93f28c0>
Arguments:
#<Sound: #5d0ac88>
NIL
Function: #<Subr-APPLY: #9512bc8>
Arguments:
#<Closure-NORM: #93f28c0>
(#<Sound: #5d0ac88> NIL)
Function: #<FSubr-COND: #9514518>
Arguments:
(LEN (SETF RESULT (MAKE-ARRAY LEN)) (DOTIMES (I LEN) (SETF (AREF RESULT I) (APPLY FN (MAPCAR (FUNCTION (LAMBDA (A) (COND ((ARRAYP A) (AREF A I)) (T A)))) ARGS)))) RESULT)
(T (APPLY FN ARGS))
Function: #<FSubr-LET: #95115c8>
Arguments:
(LEN NEWLEN RESULT)
(DOLIST (A ARGS) (COND ((ARRAYP A) (SETF NEWLEN (LENGTH A)) (COND ((AND LEN (/= LEN NEWLEN)) (ERROR (FORMAT NIL "In ~A, two arguments are vectors of differing length." FN)))) (SETF LEN NEWLEN))))
(COND (LEN (SETF RESULT (MAKE-ARRAY LEN)) (DOTIMES (I LEN) (SETF (AREF RESULT I) (APPLY FN (MAPCAR (FUNCTION (LAMBDA (A) (COND ((ARRAYP A) (AREF A I)) (T A)))) ARGS)))) RESULT) (T (APPLY FN ARGS)))
Function: #<Closure-MULTICHAN-EXPAND: #3f3a0c8>
Arguments:
#<Closure-NORM: #93f28c0>
#<Sound: #5d0ac88>

Yoicks! I can't code or even read most of it, so the above makes no sense to me.

I'm busy reading up on compression now, so will hopefully figure out how and when to use it and what presets I should use. But if anyone can offer some insights or links, that would help.

And if I may vent just a little here, I'm beginning to despair that I shall ever get a usable recording. I agree that I should probably fix this at the mike, and will probably re-record (yet again) my first chapter. But it's just so frustrating in the meantime.
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Re: Plugin Conflicts and When to Compress

Permanent link to this post Posted by steve » Thu May 25, 2017 12:01 am

robing34 wrote:I recently installed the RMS-Normalize plugin

From where?
In the case of plug-ins that are not shipped with Audacity as standard, always link to the page where the plug-in can be downloaded from. If downloaded from a post on this forum, click on the "Permalink" button of that post to get the post link into your web browser address bar, then copy the address from the address bar.
9/10 questions are answered in the FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (FAQ)
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Re: Plugin Conflicts and When to Compress

Permanent link to this post Posted by robing34 » Fri May 26, 2017 9:52 pm

I pulled it from your post to this forum: viewtopic.php?p=325078#p325078. Wouldn't have done it from anywhere else (not that you'd know that, but just to reassure you).

Just so I'm not being a complete idiot, how long does it take per minute to normalize a track? It could be I just didn't give it enough time. The funny thing is, with other tools, I usually get a pop-up saying it's working. This didn't have anything, but I don't think the SetRMS plugin did, either. And, as I recall, it took a fair amount of time. That being said, I could really see that it had done something.
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Re: Plugin Conflicts and When to Compress

Permanent link to this post Posted by kozikowski » Fri May 26, 2017 11:40 pm

If RMS Normalize isn't required to do anything, it won't do anything. If you have a loud, rich, robust reading style and, from your comment, your blue wave peaks are high, chances are good RMS Normalize isn't needed. I don't know if it will normalize down as well as up. I assume so.

So if you get it that far, then run Limiter.

-- Effect > Limiter: Soft Limit, 0.00, 0.00, -3.50, 10.00, No > OK.

Now run ACX Check to see what happened.

Koz
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Re: Plugin Conflicts and When to Compress

Permanent link to this post Posted by kozikowski » Fri May 26, 2017 11:46 pm

Reading high, loud and robust is most unusual. You are supposed to read slightly low so your reading style is not likely to peak over 100% and cause distortion. Target is peaks about -6dB to -10dB—yellow-ish on the recording meters. Microphone spacing is between fist and shaka

Image

...and use a pop and blast filter.

If you have that (you do save WAV copies of all your original readings, right?), open one of the original readings and RMS Normalize to -20dB, Effect > Limiter: Soft Limit, 0.00, 0.00, -3.50, 10.00, No > OK. Then run ACX Check and see what happened.

Koz
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Re: Plugin Conflicts and When to Compress

Permanent link to this post Posted by kozikowski » Fri May 26, 2017 11:49 pm

Missed one. You can measure RMS by yourself with Analyze > Contrast > Measure Selection. Read it and then Close.

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Re: Plugin Conflicts and When to Compress

Permanent link to this post Posted by kozikowski » Sat May 27, 2017 2:42 am

Wouldn't be the first time I've lost a forum thread.

If you're in Mono (one blue wave), drag-select a twenty-second portion of your raw, unprocessed speech, File > Export Selected: WAV (Microsoft) 16-bit and post it here. Scroll down from a forum text window and Upload Attachment.

If you're in Stereo (two blue waves), ten seconds. You should probably be reading in Mono. It's much more efficient and the corrections are more likely to do predictable things. ACX recommends (softly) submitting in Mono.

There are shortcomings to generating a standard suite of AudioBook corrections (Mastering). There will always be an outlier with an odd track, and someone is going to find an "Undocumented Feature."

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Re: Plugin Conflicts and When to Compress

Permanent link to this post Posted by robing34 » Tue May 30, 2017 9:31 pm

kozikowski wrote:Reading high, loud and robust is most unusual. You are supposed to read slightly low so your reading style is not likely to peak over 100% and cause distortion. Target is peaks about -6dB to -10dB—yellow-ish on the recording meters. Microphone spacing is between fist and shaka

Image

...and use a pop and blast filter.

If you have that (you do save WAV copies of all your original readings, right?), open one of the original readings and RMS Normalize to -20dB, Effect > Limiter: Soft Limit, 0.00, 0.00, -3.50, 10.00, No > OK. Then run ACX Check and see what happened.

Koz


Oy. Thanks for the clarification. I am probably too robust. Stage and speech background, and I'm old school in that I learned to project. Have the pop filter. Will try running the effects again, then will post as per your request in the below comment.
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Re: Plugin Conflicts and When to Compress

Permanent link to this post Posted by robing34 » Tue May 30, 2017 9:55 pm

kozikowski wrote:Wouldn't be the first time I've lost a forum thread.

If you're in Mono (one blue wave), drag-select a twenty-second portion of your raw, unprocessed speech, File > Export Selected: WAV (Microsoft) 16-bit and post it here. Scroll down from a forum text window and Upload Attachment.

There are shortcomings to generating a standard suite of AudioBook corrections (Mastering). There will always be an outlier with an odd track, and someone is going to find an "Undocumented Feature."

Koz


Clip of raw recording is attached. Selected the whole recording, tried to do the RMS Normalize and got a Validation Error: Value not in range -36 to -6. Tried hitting debug and got the same thing. I did the analysis you suggested in the other comment and got -23.8 for both foreground and background, Contrast Result: WCAG2 Fail and Difference 0.0 dB Average RMS. The photo is the ACX Check results on the raw .wav file (at 32 bit).

And I get it re the shortcomings of doing a standard suite of AudioBook corrections. Which is why I'm trying to learn as much about this kind of mastering, in general, as possible. I figure the more I learn about it, the more likely I'll be able to solve my own problems.
Attachments
17.0321.fr_SoundTest.wav
(1.68 MiB) Downloaded 24 times
17.0530.fr_ACXCheckResults.jpg
17.0530.fr_ACXCheckResults.jpg (55.79 KiB) Viewed 894 times
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Re: Plugin Conflicts and When to Compress

Permanent link to this post Posted by kozikowski » Wed May 31, 2017 4:52 pm

Something is wrong.

I applied RMS Normalize and Limiter to your clip.

Screen Shot 2017-05-31 at 09.47.36.png
Screen Shot 2017-05-31 at 09.47.36.png (49.46 KiB) Viewed 879 times


I'm not in a good place to stop and listen. I'll do that when I get home.

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