Audio Setup Help

I could find this information with enough searching I’m sure. What i’m hoping for is some dedicated audio people who love helping others. :slight_smile:

I would like to do live podcast with a cohost on their own computer with their own microphone. There are two basic questions I have about what I’ll describe. 1. How feasible is this? 2. Do you have any mixer recommendations.

Here’s how I imagine the setup working.

USB mixer hooked up to the computer.
Mic A through mixer to computer to be used for conversation (although I would ultimately like to purchase a usb mixer which has room to input 4 mics).
Headphones plug into mic or mixer hear both audio from computer and direct feedback from mic.
A Phone plugged into mixer from which I can play music and sounds, or take incoming phone calls.
Mixer records Mic A + Phone/tablet input + all incoming audio from PC onto a Zoom H2n.

Any thoughts/ideas/problems?

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

would like to do live podcast with a cohost on their own computer with their own microphone.

How live? Streaming? Do you have streaming service at your location? Many people’s internet “Up” connection is a lot slower than the “Down” service. So you can watch a movie, but you can’t push one back up in real time.

I got burned with this when I could create a good show, but the guest headphones never got anything better than distorted sound.

Where is the co-host? Same room? Same timezone?

Skype throws very serious complexity into the mix.

Koz

I could find this information with enough searching I’m sure.

I’m not sure. Most new users reel off a list of production requirements expecting it to be a software download or two and you’re good to go.

There are a couple of celebrities that actually got that to work, but for most of us it’s a lot more effort. People keep pointing to that one guy saying, “See, he got it to work.”

He’s a unicorn.

You usually can’t depend on equipment suppliers to be any help. They will be delighted to sell you packages of microphones and mixer and cables, and then drop you like a hot rock.

I don’t know of any posting or instruction page how to do this.

I can make it worse. If you have a room with bare floors and walls (any modern living room or office) the podcast is going to sound like two people doing a show from a bathroom.

Koz

Thanks for the response.

I guess will begin the search for a mixer which can do what I’m looking for.

I have some experience creating audio of a quality which meets my expectations through a mic gobo, some foam over the windows, and a handful of large blankets in the room.

With the live stream of the show, I am anticipating and accepting hiccups in audio and the quality. However, I also wanted to do a separate local recording of audio which can be used to create a higher quality mp3.

You may be shaking your head in disdain at this, but I have seen hangouts on air create something which is about what I am looking for, I’m just hoping to add in a little more audio options through the usb mixer.

You may be shaking your head in disdain at this,

I’m not. You’re already miles ahead of most posters who want to do this. I note you didn’t answer several of the questions.

Where is the guest?

I did this with a mixer, but I used two computers, one for music playback and Audacity record of the mixed show, and the other to manage Skype.

It pays handsomely to get a mixer with a separate FX Send. You can make a mix-minus out of that to avoid sending the guest back to himself. The less work you make Skype do, the better.

This is a test. There’s nothing theatrically perfect about it. The joke is it’s a perfect podcast. The whole show is taken up with discussing when to have the next podcast. Denise is four time zones away.

If that’s at all applicable, I can give details. I know of no way to cram all three jobs into one computer—with any reliability.

Koz

Mine is the small version. I, too have seen people do this. This is the Pando Podcast and they do it the way I did, only they’re much more comprehensive with individual note-taking computers as well as the music computer and the streaming manager. Count the laptops.

If you know people who got away with a simpler configuration, post links and details.

Koz

The co-host is in the same timezone.

I’m hoping for livestreaming through youtube live or facebook I guess.

I was hoping to put just one computer, a smartphone for inserting music and sound, and recording with an h2n right from the mixer, but can devote two computers if necessary.

I will check out your stuff.

Thanks for all your responses.

No, no. That’s terrific. Most people try to smash everything into one laptop. I need to read through that and come back.

It’s a volunteer forum. Life intrudes.

Koz

livestreaming through youtube live … recording with an h2n right from the mixer

And right there is the first disconnect. There is no recorder in Live Streaming. It’s real-time subject to which product you’re using. Some products allow the supplier to stop and start your stream as needed to keep the show from falling apart depending on subscribers and link speeds.

That’s not to say you can’t have a recorder, but it’s more of a challenge to integrate it.

I need a more touchy-feely idea how you’re going to connect with the co-host. I didn’t see any provision for a live-stream coming from more than one internet host and I suspect it would be an interesting to try and manage two different streams at once.

recording with an h2n right from the mixer

That only works if the mixer has the whole show. There is the side problem of connecting a mixer to an H2N, but I can look that up.

So we have an arriving stream with the co-host (and remember, it has to be bi-directional so he can hear what’s going on) and a departing stream with the mixed show on it.

This makes my brain bleed (if it’s even possible), so what’s the possibility of recording, editing and producing a show and then posting it for customers later instead of live-streaming it?

If I wander off the design of the show anywhere in here, say something.


I’m assuming you’re not trying to game at the same time or MUD. You’re not, right? What’s the content (without giving too much away)?

Koz

You may not be able to connect the H2N to the mixer. This is a page from the User Manual.
Screen Shot 2016-08-31 at 13.06.15.png
They use a weasel term “Mic Line Input.” That usually means it doesn’t have a high volume, stereo line input. The instructions are only for a microphone connection. It’s possible it supports a much higher volume stereo mixer connection, but until somebody tells me that in clear words, I’m going with no.

Generally, those two don’t cross.

Koz

Close. You just need an extra step. Koz

===================
I’m considering getting a Zoom H2 to record my band’s gigs, but I want to use my mixer’s RCA tape outs into the Zoom’s line input. Googling this setup I found many have had problems w/ the H2’s line input (apparrently it was built for mic level) and that it distorts when you feed it either -10 or +4 line level. Anybody tried feeding their H2 line level out of your mixer and if so did the Zoom’s line input distort or did it record clean audio?
Thanks,
Bob

==================
The H2 line level input is definitely not “built for mic level” - rather it’s an oversensitive variant of -10 dB consumer line level. Mixers are more likely to output +4 dB pro line level.
I’ve used my H2 to record from various mixer outputs dozens of times. I use an inexpensive attenuator: http://www.electronicplus…10-105&Submit=Search
If you’re using RCA outs of the mixer, all you’ll need is a set of adapters to get from the RCAs on the attenuator to the 1/8" stereo input on the H2. I usually set the attenuator at the half-way mark.
Fran

This guy records onto a zoom h2n: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwxNwc7APg8

This guy uses the usb on a mic to go to computer while using the xlr to record simultaneously: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIYg7UPSpSo
It might help you imagine what I’m thinking.

I do have the h2n and the atr 2100 already. I’ve used the h2n to record a podcast with a large degree of success. I bought the atr 2100 to test it and found the sound quality to be adequate for my purposes, and it is much more forgiving when it comes to cats meowing in the next room, my lack of skill in keeping the same distance from the mic, and it doesn’t pick up as much of the weird mouth noises the h2n does. Really, because I’m so amateur, less sensitivity is helpful :slight_smile:.

You also asked about content, probably bsing and political talking. No gaming.

I need a more touchy-feely idea how you’re going to connect with the co-host. I didn’t see any provision for a live-stream coming from more than one internet host and I suspect it would be an interesting to try and manage two different streams at once.

I plan to connect with the cohost through one of the online streaming software solutions which already exists. Most likely Youtube live. This both live streams and records the conversation so it’s not really two different streams, but more like a live stream of our video chat.

That only works if the mixer has the whole show. There is the side problem of connecting a mixer to an H2N, but I can look that up.

Yes. That’s one of my biggest questions. Can I get the mixer to record everything connected to it? And can I get the mixer to send everything flowing through it to the person I am livestreaming with?

This makes my brain bleed (if it’s even possible), so what’s the possibility of recording, editing and producing a show and then posting it for customers later instead of live-streaming it?

Well I’m so glad to be putting you to the test. :slight_smile:. You helped me figure out my Yeti ringing problem a year ago very easily and I’m glad to be challenging your brain now. It will help delay dementia.

I actually want 2 slightly different versions of the show. One is a live streaming, which I believe people have lower expectations of. Then, from the audio recorded from the live stream, I’d like to have a higher quality mp3 to put out into the podcasting world.

atr 2100

I’m not worried about that [!]. you seem to have a remarkably good grip on the sound.

I plan to connect with the cohost through one of the online streaming software solutions which already exists.

Yes. That helps. We tell people constantly, we have to build your world in our imaginations, so detail is good.

This both live streams and records the conversation

And records it? That might help with post production… Maybe.

How is that recorded show delivered to you?

I haven’t addressed path delays yet. If you do this wrong, you could be listening to yourself “one internet” late. That’s amazingly annoying.

I know I’m probably supposed to be doing this in my head, but I still need felt-tip pen and napkin.

Let’s see, you and the guest appear on the internet recording. You and no guest are in the mixer with the music. The music appears on the internet recording delayed and the mixer undelayed.

As we go.

Oh, one more cheery note. Post production editing takes five times the length of the show. I know you gasp at that, but it’s remarkable accurate. For the illustration, you have to play the show through once to see where the errors are and then again to make sure you caught them all. So there’s two right there and we have made no edits or had Unfortunate Errors.

There are horror stories of “New User” production people who promised polished, finished, correct work way, way too soon.

Koz

p.s. Save all original work… Nothing like having your final edit go into the toilet…and there are no other files.

I’m not worried about that [!]. you seem to have a remarkably good grip on the sound.

Yeah, the reason that mic in particular is potentially relevant to this conversation is that it can act as a usb and xlr mic simultaneously.

And records it? That might help with post production… Maybe.

How is that recorded show delivered to you?

Yes. Very convenient. I’ve used hangouts on air once and I’m assuming youtube live is quite similar. The program is a combination of a live video chat, live streaming, and creates a video of the livestream. There is already an audacity plug in which takes just the audio from the video as an mp3. I’m hoping only to treat this as a backup however, and have the cohost send me a .wav file via google drive to mix with my audio file. This would sound much better I suspect.

I haven’t addressed path delays yet. If you do this wrong, you could be listening to yourself “one internet” late. That’s amazingly annoying.

No way I could do it without talking as I’m having a stroke. I’m assuming the mixer would send audio from my mic directly into my headphones, but if not, there is also a headphone jack on the mic itself.

Oh, one more cheery note. Post production editing takes five times the length of the show. I know you gasp at that, but it’s remarkable accurate.

Ugh. The first time I edited a 55 minute monologue is when I realized what I was getting myself into. I definitely got a little bit faster, but it still took forever. The thing which does the most to cut down the editing time is recording well the first time. I’m hoping not putting music in after the fact, not pausing the show as it will be live, and having more of a conversational feel already will decrease the ratio of show length to editing time. But I assure you, i’m prepared to be disappointed and lose a little sleep staring at blue lines.

So creating an on-line show is taken care of by the service. Both sides, music, etc, etc, whatever it is, it is. It’s the higher quality local mix that causes problems.

Assuming you don’t take any shortcuts, the whole high quality show minus the co-host is available from the sound mixer, right? So the co-host records his own voice in Audacity at the same time his voice goes down the line into the on-line service. I think that’s do-able because it’s a fairly common complaint that, for example, during Skype transmissions, Audacity never gets the far side, but the local microphone seems to record just fine. Skype doesn’t seem to care, and I suspect your service won’t either.

At the end of the show, they Export their local voice as WAV (Microsoft) and get it to you Some How. You integrate the high quality Mixer Show with the high quality Co-Host Show and Export WAV (Microsoft) Master and only then whatever the client deliverable is. MP3 is not a Master unless your computer caught fire and you have no choice.

It’s entirely possible the two voices aren’t going to fit. The movie people use stunningly expensive timebase systems or sync services to make sure all the various recorders are doing the same things at the same time. It is an absolute waste of time and money to have someone sit through a sync session in post production just because of speed issues, but that’s what you will be doing. Chance of your 44100 sample rate exactly matching his is zero. So over the course of the performance one of the two shows will get longer than the other. As long as nobody changes hardware, the error should be constant, so once you figure out what it is and correct for it with Effect > Change Speed, it should be the same error going forward. It’s a percentage, so it doesn’t matter how long the show is (within reason).

I need to drop out for a minute.

Koz

Dueling posts. I need to go back and read through that.

Koz

The thing which does the most to cut down the editing time is recording well the first time.

But that’s not the only thing that causes problems. Your threshold of excellence changes as you edit.

“You know, now that I listen to it critically, I could probably tighten up that paragraph a little.”
[Alarm Bells] [Send out for pizza and strong coffee]

If you do put the music in later, you don’t need the mixer. You both record your own voices and jam them together in post, add music as needed, glaze with clarified butter and bake in a 350 degree oven.

That’s not a dreadful idea anyway. Many of the errors in my podcast test were getting the music wrong. One of the qualifying items in the engineering test is an almost complete absence of hand-eye coordination.

I’m having trouble visualizing the monitoring. Yes, it’s perfectly true you can listen to your own voice either at the Mixer monitor point or at the little hole in the bottom of the microphone, but neither of those necessarily has the far side voice.

Given two people who want to fool around instead of set up a crazy complicated podcast, what’s supposed to happen? No mixer, no fancy microphone. Just two people with headphones. I assume it is assumed that the laptop built-in microphone will be used. That’s what happened in the far side for my test. What’s normal?

Koz

I do have one other piece of this. This is a borrowed Samson G-Track microphone. It’s claim to fame is the monitor point can hear both the computer playback and the real-time performance. It’s used in Overdubbing where you sing three-part harmony to yourself. In his particular instance, you can hear the old tracks and your live voice with no errors.

But you can’t go through a mixer…

Koz

Yeah. The more i think this over with your help, the more difficult it seems to be able to do, especially without spending 20 hours in post production. I have to be content with something less than what I want or else I won’t do anything at all.

This guy: https://youtu.be/PqH6-_KyTOY?t=54m4s has a setup which approximates what I’m looking for. It appears he records the incoming audio from skype onto his zoom h2 from the mixer. Not ideal, but certainly more easily doable. I think I have to retreat to something like this.

The mic you showed… don’t most usb mics allow you to listen to the playback while hearing your own voice? I have two usb mics and they both do that. If I have one nearby and I’m going to use my computer for a decent amount of time, I’ll plug in the usb mic and put my headphones in the mic because the sound quality is better than through my old and dusty pc’s headphone jack.

It’s been a very interesting conversation. Thanks. Any other thoughts? I think now it’s just finding a usb mixer which does what I want.