timeline

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Re: timeline

Permanent link to this post Posted by Gale Andrews » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:04 pm

steve wrote:Now comes the problem.

I don't think the request is for deep integration into the block file structure, but for the simpler feature Dave described in http://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?p=321340#p321340.


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Re: timeline

Permanent link to this post Posted by steve » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:42 pm

Gale Andrews wrote:I don't think the request is for deep integration into the block file structure, but for the simpler feature Dave described in viewtopic.php?p=321340#p321340.

I think the basic request could be satisfied by allowing an arbitrary time offset for the Timeline (as described here: viewtopic.php?p=321305#p321305). This would certainly be feasible, and has much broader usefulness than Dave's specific use case.
@Dave, would you like to comment on this as a possible solution?

I think the detail that Dave adds in that post, specifically with regard to adding and deleting audio, does imply "deep integration" with the audio data, which is problematic as I described here: viewtopic.php?p=321405#p321405
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Re: timeline

Permanent link to this post Posted by davelindsey » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:14 pm

whilst the deep integration would be ideal, maybe as a long term goal, the simpler feature would be great if that could be implemented in the short term.

thanks
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Re: timeline

Permanent link to this post Posted by Gale Andrews » Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:20 pm

steve wrote:
Gale Andrews wrote:I don't think the request is for deep integration into the block file structure, but for the simpler feature Dave described in viewtopic.php?p=321340#p321340.

I think the basic request could be satisfied by allowing an arbitrary time offset for the Timeline (as described here: viewtopic.php?p=321305#p321305). This would certainly be feasible, and has much broader usefulness than Dave's specific use case.
[...]
I think the detail that Dave adds in that post, specifically with regard to adding and deleting audio, does imply "deep integration" with the audio data, which is problematic as I described here: viewtopic.php?p=321405#p321405

I'm not 100% sure that is necessary - I thought it might be possible to handle it just as a display feature in the XML. Of course it has got to be undo and redoable with the insertions and deletions.

With the alternative suggestion of an offset Timeline, presumably clicking the |<< button would not go to time zero but to the offset time, which could be for example 23 hours. And then for two hours of audio, we still have to handle a switchover to displaying 00 hours at the 24 hours position don't we?

I think any fully developed feature should be a separate Timeline not part of the standard Timeline. I could see it working rather like a label track where labels marked the Timeline "ticks" and like Sync-Lock Tracks, the labels demarcated the groups of tracks to which a particular timeline applied.


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Re: timeline

Permanent link to this post Posted by steve » Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:44 pm

Gale Andrews wrote:I thought it might be possible to handle it just as a display feature in the XML. Of course it has got to be undo and redoable with the insertions and deletions.

Do I understand your proposal correctly:
For example, if you have a 10 second recording that started at 12:00 mid day, the (new) timeline would show:
Code: Select all
12:00:00 12:00:01 12:00:02 12:00:03 12:00:04 12:00:05 12:00:06 12:00:07 12:00:08 12:00:09 12:00:10 - - - -

and if you then copy from 12:00:03 to 12:00:09 and paste over 12:00:05 to 12:00:06, it would then show:
Code: Select all
12:00:00 12:00:01 12:00:02 12:00:03 12:00:04 12:00:03 12:00:04 12:00:05 12:00:06 12:00:07 12:00:08 12:00:06 12:00:07 12:00:08 12:00:09 12:00:10 - - - -

and if you apply the Change Speed effect, the new timeline would increase or decrease the spacing between numbers so that, speeding up would show "faster" seconds and slowing down would show "longer" seconds.

Gale Andrews wrote:With the alternative suggestion of an offset Timeline, presumably clicking the |<< button would not go to time zero but to the offset time, which could be for example 23 hours.

Yes. "<<" would "Skip to start", which in this example is 23 hours.

Gale Andrews wrote:And then for two hours of audio, we still have to handle a switchover to displaying 00 hours at the 24 hours position don't we?

If we want "clock time" displayed, then yes. "Clock time" would be a useful option for some use cases.
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Re: timeline

Permanent link to this post Posted by Gale Andrews » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:16 pm

steve wrote:
Gale Andrews wrote:I thought it might be possible to handle it just as a display feature in the XML. Of course it has got to be undo and redoable with the insertions and deletions.

Do I understand your proposal correctly:
For example, if you have a 10 second recording that started at 12:00 mid day, the (new) timeline would show:
Code: Select all
12:00:00 12:00:01 12:00:02 12:00:03 12:00:04 12:00:05 12:00:06 12:00:07 12:00:08 12:00:09 12:00:10 - - - -

and if you then copy from 12:00:03 to 12:00:09 and paste over 12:00:05 to 12:00:06, it would then show:
Code: Select all
12:00:00 12:00:01 12:00:02 12:00:03 12:00:04 12:00:03 12:00:04 12:00:05 12:00:06 12:00:07 12:00:08 12:00:06 12:00:07 12:00:08 12:00:09 12:00:10 - - - -

That paste would increase the absolute length of the recording to 15 seconds so I am not sure about your exact display times after the paste.

I was thinking more like Dave suggested that we would not show a continuous time after insertions and deletions.

Perhaps then in this example it would show clock times for the first five seconds and the last four seconds, which clarifies that one second of the original audio no longer exists. I don't think this example would be very clear on a "Clock Timeline" but region labels "12:00:00 to 12:00:05" and "12:00:06 to 12:00:10" (the second label extending on the real Timeline from 11 seconds to 15 seconds) would show it clearly.

steve wrote:if you apply the Change Speed effect, the new timeline would increase or decrease the spacing between numbers so that, speeding up would show "faster" seconds and slowing down would show "longer" seconds.

In this example I suppose the label I have in mind would show 12:00:00 to 12:00:10 and would extend for whatever the new length of the track was, or the label would show nothing.

In all these cases of the length of the track changing, I imagine we would retain the original length of the Clock Timeline for visual reference. This makes no sense in the Timeline we have now, so I still think we would use a separate Clock Timeline for this which I see as a strip having the length of the original recording and containing labels which could extend to right of the strip or come to an end inside the strip, according to whatever the length change was.


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