Plugins go to ~/Library... is problematic

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Plugins go to ~/Library... is problematic

Permanent link to this post Posted by bryanzak17 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:39 pm

So this change is problematic:

If you delete the Audacity folder from a previous installation, remember to move any optional plug-ins you added to its plug-ins folder to the new Audacity Plug-Ins folder at ~/Library/Application Support/audacity/Plug-Ins.



I am an admin for edu and our students all use AD accounts. So now I have to install multiple copies of plugins for every user that logs in or might login?

Is the root library supported as well? /Library/Application Support/audacity/Plug-Ins ?

Please say yes :)
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Re: Plugins go to ~/Library... is problematic

Permanent link to this post Posted by Gale Andrews » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:47 pm

Do you want to add custom plugins? If not, just proceed as before.

If you want to add custom plugins, what is the format of the custom plugins you want to add - VST, LADSPA or Nyquist?

All plugin formats except Nyquist have a system plugin location that can be used - please see Installing Effect, Generator and Analyzer plug-ins on Mac OS X/macOS. On GNU/Linux Audacity does recognise system locations for Nyquist plugins, but not as far as I know on Mac or Windows.

/Library/Application Support/audacity/Plug-Ins is not supported.

Were you previously modifying Audacity's Plug-Ins folder before installing it to different accounts? If the plugins you want to add are Nyquist, you can use the Plug-Ins folder in "Contents" inside the Audacity.app bundle (right-click, Show Package Contents). But the custom plugins won't survive upgrade to the next Audacity version unless you have a script to manage that.


Gale


bryanzak17 wrote:So this change is problematic:

If you delete the Audacity folder from a previous installation, remember to move any optional plug-ins you added to its plug-ins folder to the new Audacity Plug-Ins folder at ~/Library/Application Support/audacity/Plug-Ins.



I am an admin for edu and our students all use AD accounts. So now I have to install multiple copies of plugins for every user that logs in or might login?

Is the root library supported as well? /Library/Application Support/audacity/Plug-Ins ?

Please say yes :)
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Re: Plugins go to ~/Library... is problematic

Permanent link to this post Posted by waxcylinder » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:08 am

Gale Andrews wrote:/Library/Application Support/audacity/Plug-Ins is not supported.

The Manual page that you gave the link for, Gale, looks to say that /Library/Application Support/audacity/Plug-Ins is supported - and that thus system-wide plug-ins should be supported.

I have not tested the accuracucy/veracity of this.

WC
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Re: Plugins go to ~/Library... is problematic

Permanent link to this post Posted by steve » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:37 pm

For Nyquist plug-ins, running this script in the Nyquist Prompt effect will give a list of all locations where Audacity can find Nyquist plug-ins:
Code: Select all
;version 4
(setf dirs "Plug-in directories:\n")
(dolist (dir (get '*SYSTEM-DIR* 'plug-in) dirs)
  (setf dirs (strcat dirs dir "\n")))

(requires Audacity version 2.1.3 or later)
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Re: Plugins go to ~/Library... is problematic

Permanent link to this post Posted by Gale Andrews » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:35 pm

waxcylinder wrote:
Gale Andrews wrote:/Library/Application Support/audacity/Plug-Ins is not supported.

The Manual page that you gave the link for, Gale, looks to say that /Library/Application Support/audacity/Plug-Ins is supported - and that thus system-wide plug-ins should be supported.

I don't know if there is a display problem on Peter's computer, but Installing Effect, Generator and Analyzer plug-ins on Mac OS X/macOS says that ~/Library/Application Support/audacity/Plug-Ins (Audacity's Plug-ins folder) supports Nyquist, LADSPA and VST plugins.

waxcylinder wrote:I have not tested the accuracucy/veracity of this.

I did so for Nyquist plugins. They are not seen in /Library/Application Support/audacity/Plug-Ins.


Gale
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Re: Plugins go to ~/Library... is problematic

Permanent link to this post Posted by Gale Andrews » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:58 pm

steve wrote:For Nyquist plug-ins, running this script in the Nyquist Prompt effect will give a list of all locations where Audacity can find Nyquist plug-ins:
Code: Select all
;version 4
(setf dirs "Plug-in directories:\n")
(dolist (dir (get '*SYSTEM-DIR* 'plug-in) dirs)
  (setf dirs (strcat dirs dir "\n")))

(requires Audacity version 2.1.3 or later)

Thanks, Steve. On Windows 10 that shows more locations inside Audacity than I expected, but they seem to work:
Nyquist_plugin_dirs_in_Audacity.png
Nyquist_plugin_dirs_in_Audacity.png (7.56 KiB) Viewed 559 times


I don't think we'd want to suggest to users going into the Nyquist directory.


Gale
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Re: Plugins go to ~/Library... is problematic

Permanent link to this post Posted by steve » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:17 pm

Gale Andrews wrote:I don't think we'd want to suggest to users going into the Nyquist directory.

No, I agree. That should be used only for "system" Nyquist files (the .lsp files).
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Re: Plugins go to ~/Library... is problematic

Permanent link to this post Posted by bryanzak17 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:55 pm

Gale Andrews wrote:Do you want to add custom plugins? If not, just proceed as before.


That's irrelevant. If you have an app that is marketed to EDU then you really need to think through multiple user support.

Storing plugins for an app in a single user's folder makes my job as admin more difficult. Not impossible, just more difficult. But that's fine, I'll deal with it.

It's almost like app devs are being intentionally hostile towards users when they ignore things like /Library which has been around since the dinosaurs walked the earth.
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Re: Plugins go to ~/Library... is problematic

Permanent link to this post Posted by Gale Andrews » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:03 pm

steve wrote:For Nyquist plug-ins, running this script in the Nyquist Prompt effect will give a list of all locations where Audacity can find Nyquist plug-ins:
Code: Select all
;version 4
(setf dirs "Plug-in directories:\n")
(dolist (dir (get '*SYSTEM-DIR* 'plug-in) dirs)
  (setf dirs (strcat dirs dir "\n")))

(requires Audacity version 2.1.3 or later)

On Sierra this doesn't return ~/Library/Application Support/audacity/Plug-Ins.
Screen Shot 2017-03-21 at 19.24.52.png
Screen Shot 2017-03-21 at 19.24.52.png (53.89 KiB) Viewed 547 times

and on Linux (Ubuntu 14.04) it does not return ~/.audacity-data/Plug-Ins. So the failure to mention Audacity's folder for application data is common to all three platforms.

Also on Ubuntu 14.04 it returns
Code: Select all
/home/gale/nyquist
/home/gale/plugins
/home/gale/plug-ins

Those three locations were unexpected to me, and Audacity does not see Nyquist plugins in /home/gale/plug-ins AFAICT. Not tested beyond that.


Gale
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Re: Plugins go to ~/Library... is problematic

Permanent link to this post Posted by Gale Andrews » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:23 pm

bryanzak17 wrote:
Gale Andrews wrote:Do you want to add custom plugins? If not, just proceed as before.


That's irrelevant. If you have an app that is marketed to EDU then you really need to think through multiple user support.

Storing plugins for an app in a single user's folder makes my job as admin more difficult. Not impossible, just more difficult. But that's fine, I'll deal with it.

What is EDU? Education?

If you were to explain what exactly you were doing before, and exactly what plugins are the problem, that might assist us. You also used the term "AD accounts" without defining what that was.

In case it is still unclear, the shipped plugins are still shipped in the application. Just inside the audacity.app bundle, not in a separate folder alongside it. The point is that we are are not going to suggest to users that they should go messing inside the bundle to add new plugins, in case they break the application.

Another point as I am sure you will know, is that most applications on Mac already ship their resources inside the bundle. Gatekeeper policies on Sierra have effectively forced us into that decision.

bryanzak17 wrote:It's almost like app devs are being intentionally hostile towards users when they ignore things like /Library which has been around since the dinosaurs walked the earth.

As previously explained, /Library is not ignored. It is just that for Nyquist plugins, and only those, there is no system path that Audacity recognises. If you want Audacity to see VST or Audio Units in the appropriate folder in /Library/Audio/, this is still supported. Please see the link I posted.

You asked if /Library/Application Support/audacity/Plug-Ins was supported and you were answered - no, and it wasn't supported before. There is no reason we can't enter a feature request for you, but to do that - or to see if it's even necessary - we need some detailed response from you on what plugins exactly are creating the problem.


Gale
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