Problems with the new Noise Reduction replacing Noise Remova

Feedback and Reviews for Audacity 2.x

This board is ONLY for general feedback and discussion about Audacity 2.X.

If you require help, or think you have found a "bug", please post on the forum board relevant to your operating system.
Windows
Mac OS X
GNU/Linux and Unix-like

Re: Problems with the new Noise Reduction replacing Noise Re

Permanent link to this post Posted by jsouza » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:39 pm

I capture vinyl rips at 24/96 using a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi HD and use Audacity to clean up the sound and export to FLAC, etc. I have been using Audacity 2.0.6 for several months, but upgraded to 2.1.1 over the weekend. FWIW, I was experimenting with Noise Reduction settings in 2.1.1 and I have found that for a sample size of two vinyl rips, settings of 9/2/1 seemed to work well for me. I'd be interested in hearing of others' results using these same settings in 2.1.1. Thanks.
jsouza
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:32 pm
Operating System: Please select

Re: Problems with the new Noise Reduction replacing Noise Re

Permanent link to this post Posted by stearman65 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:23 am

I too have noticed a difference in the new noise removal, when I used the prior version I didn't have to adjust any settings, usually one sample was enough to remove all the unwanted noise. Now, the same process leaves some of the noise behind, it only reduces the noise. I'm not technical enough to know what settings to change. :(
Stearman65
stearman65
 
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:06 pm
Operating System: Windows 7

Re: Problems with the new Noise Reduction replacing Noise Re

Permanent link to this post Posted by steve » Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:52 am

stearman65 wrote:I too have noticed a difference in the new noise removal, when I used the prior version I didn't have to adjust any settings, usually one sample was enough to remove all the unwanted noise. Now, the same process leaves some of the noise behind, it only reduces the noise. I'm not technical enough to know what settings to change. :(
Stearman65

The new Noise Reduction effect will generally remove more noise with less damage to the remaining sound than the old Noise Removal effect when used with "optimum settings".

Unfortunately the default setting for the new Noise Reduction effect were not chosen well.
Generally it is recommended to increase the "Frequency smoothing bands" a bit. Try setting this to 3.

The old effect tended to be less precise in what was removed, so the "noise profile" was less critical than in the new effect (though the downside is that it would tend to damage the remaining sound more than the new effect). When making the "noise profile", choose a part of the audio where the noise is loudest, but it MUST be "noise only".
9/10 questions are answered in the FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (FAQ)
steve
Senior Forum Staff
 
Posts: 43167
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:43 am
Operating System: Linux Debian

Re: Problems with the new Noise Reduction replacing Noise Re

Permanent link to this post Posted by mickthefish » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:16 pm

There is a posting where ACX tells us that requiring Noise Reduction is a sure sign you're doing it wrong!!!.You could of course listen to your old tapes in a room full of pressure cookers.(same sound)..As The founder of REV BLACK & THE ROCKING VICKERS(I GO APE) in 1959 I've grown up with music & audacity has breathed new life into my huge collection of tapes & vinyls.NOISE REDUCTION DOES WORK Its how you use It....mickthefish.
mickthefish
 
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:40 am
Operating System: Windows XP

Re: Problems with the new Noise Reduction replacing Noise Re

Permanent link to this post Posted by kozikowski » Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:07 pm

There is a posting where ACX tells us that requiring Noise Reduction is a sure sign you're doing it wrong!

That was from an ACX posting. I did the forum post and I just posted a screen cap from them.

There is an unfortunately popular idea that you can create a messy AudioBook reading, flog it until it can barely stand, and then submit it as having met ACX AudioBook standards. It does. The technical standards. Of course, the submission collapses instantly the first time a human hears it. The (famous) violation is "overprocessing."

I know where they're coming from and just as a proof of performance, I created, with these fingers and modest equipment, perfectly serviceable AudioBook submissions with no post production past a volume change. So I know it can be done. There is also the story of the woman who routinely cranks out AudioBook readings from wherever she happens to be with minimal sound considerations and a portable recorder.

It saves everyone a lot of work, fuss and time if you create a good, clear, quiet recording right at the top. That said, you can help a slightly noisy voice recording along with Noise Reduction. There is a stark difference between that and Noise Removal. ACX can't hear small values of Noise Reduction.

That's different from processing your 1963 78RPM recording of Elvis Presley. Nobody is going to buy that from you as a commercial product and you can process until you like it. Also note that apparently, Noise Reduction values for music are different from voice. I can vouch for the voice ones.

Koz
kozikowski
Forum Staff
 
Posts: 36274
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:57 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Operating System: OS X 10.9 Mavericks

Re: Problems with the new Noise Reduction replacing Noise Re

Permanent link to this post Posted by sizemore » Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:28 pm

Hello; I was just coming to the forum to post a question asking if anybody else thinks the old Noise Removal was far superior to the new Noise Reduction. I saw this post and just decided to add my thoughts and experiences to it.

My home studio is not 100% soundproof and silent. When I record vocals with my excellent microphone, there is additional sound picked up. Yet I want only the vocals in the recording. The old Noise Removal, combined with the Generate Silence feature, gives me perfect results --- but the new Noise Reduction feature is totally unsatisfactory.

Noise Reduction does not remove as much unwanted background noise; plus, as the original poster mentioned, it has a tendency to add a metallic noise (to well-recorded audio) on the first pass --- whereas Noise Removal will only add a metallic noise (to well-recorded audio) if you make multiple passes with it --- which I never have to do with my vocals. (Both Noise Reduction and Noise Removal will add metallic noise to audio files which contain a lot of background noise.)

I have two computers, side-by-side: the old computer with Audacity 2.0.5 and Noise Removal, and the new computer with Audacity 2.1.0 and Noise Reduction. I do ALL my vocals recording on the old computer, so I can enjoy the benefits of Audacity 2.0.5 and Noise removal.

Also, if I download or scrape an online audio recording which contains unwanted noise, Noise removal is far superior than Noise Reduction.

You asked for examples: please hear attached 3 different versions of a scraped audio file which contains a good bit of background noise (I think it's wind). The 1st 7 seconds is the Raw file; the 2nd is same file with Noise Reduction; the 3rd is with Noise Removal. You will notice that, because of the significant amount of background noise, both Noise reduction and Noise Removal add a bit of metallic noise --- but Noise Removal demonstrates superior results and less metallic noise. (Please note: even though the wav file was 4 MB, and therefore the upload should not have been rejected by this platform, I was forced to upload mp3, instead, due to file size.)

If I were forced to choose only one Audacity to use, it would be 2.0.5, because of this subject under discussion.

Why not add Noise Removal back to the new versions of Audacity, so people can choose which feature they wish to use, under different circumstances?
Attachments
Raw, then Noise Reduction, then Noise Removal.mp3
(372.65 KiB) Downloaded 40 times
sizemore
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:39 pm
Operating System: Windows 7

Re: Problems with the new Noise Reduction replacing Noise Re

Permanent link to this post Posted by steve » Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:46 pm

sizemore wrote:You asked for examples: please hear attached 3 different versions of a scraped audio file which contains a good bit of background noise (I think it's wind). The 1st 7 seconds is the Raw file; the 2nd is same file with Noise Reduction; the 3rd is with Noise Removal.

Thanks for the samples.
I think that you had the "Frequency Smoothing (bands)" set too low.

Here's your "Noise Removal" (old effect):
Old Noise Removal.wav
(1.04 MiB) Downloaded 47 times


And here's the new "Noise Reduction" effect with settings of 18, 6, 12:
New Noise Reduction.wav
(993 KiB) Downloaded 42 times


The "noise" in these samples is quite tough for any noise reduction effect to deal with because it is "sweeping and swooshing" rather than constant - it sounds to me more like "surf" rather than "wind".
9/10 questions are answered in the FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (FAQ)
steve
Senior Forum Staff
 
Posts: 43167
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:43 am
Operating System: Linux Debian

Re: Problems with the new Noise Reduction replacing Noise Re

Permanent link to this post Posted by Robert J. H. » Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:02 pm

sizemore wrote:Hello; I was just coming to the forum to post a question asking if anybody else thinks the old Noise Removal was far superior to the new Noise Reduction. I saw this post and just decided to add my thoughts and experiences to it.

My home studio is not 100% soundproof and silent. When I record vocals with my excellent microphone, there is additional sound picked up. Yet I want only the vocals in the recording. The old Noise Removal, combined with the Generate Silence feature, gives me perfect results --- but the new Noise Reduction feature is totally unsatisfactory.

Noise Reduction does not remove as much unwanted background noise; plus, as the original poster mentioned, it has a tendency to add a metallic noise (to well-recorded audio) on the first pass --- whereas Noise Removal will only add a metallic noise (to well-recorded audio) if you make multiple passes with it --- which I never have to do with my vocals. (Both Noise Reduction and Noise Removal will add metallic noise to audio files which contain a lot of background noise.)

I have two computers, side-by-side: the old computer with Audacity 2.0.5 and Noise Removal, and the new computer with Audacity 2.1.0 and Noise Reduction. I do ALL my vocals recording on the old computer, so I can enjoy the benefits of Audacity 2.0.5 and Noise removal.

Also, if I download or scrape an online audio recording which contains unwanted noise, Noise removal is far superior than Noise Reduction.

You asked for examples: please hear attached 3 different versions of a scraped audio file which contains a good bit of background noise (I think it's wind). The 1st 7 seconds is the Raw file; the 2nd is same file with Noise Reduction; the 3rd is with Noise Removal. You will notice that, because of the significant amount of background noise, both Noise reduction and Noise Removal add a bit of metallic noise --- but Noise Removal demonstrates superior results and less metallic noise. (Please note: even though the wav file was 4 MB, and therefore the upload should not have been rejected by this platform, I was forced to upload mp3, instead, due to file size.)

If I were forced to choose only one Audacity to use, it would be 2.0.5, because of this subject under discussion.

Why not add Noise Removal back to the new versions of Audacity, so people can choose which feature they wish to use, under different circumstances?

I'm not a fan of the new effect either.
However, we should choose a realistic scenario in order to show issues.
Your sample file is in this regard rather unfair I'm afraid:
- The noise is actually wanted sound (wind)
- it moves between the speakers and hasn't a static character.
- There's also a faint sweeping sound in it.
- the signal to noise ratio is much to poor.
- The noise profile is almost white but transients (percussion hits) have also a flat spectrum and will therefore be distorted.

Perhaps you can provide another sample file?

Robert
Robert J. H.
 
Posts: 1813
Joined: Thu May 31, 2012 8:33 am
Operating System: Windows 7

Re: Problems with the new Noise Reduction replacing Noise Re

Permanent link to this post Posted by kozikowski » Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:32 pm

You people are celebrities.

I was never able to get Noise Removal to do anything useful save once. That one time was when I, seemingly by accident, struck a removal value the thickness of a coating of paint up from dead zero. That's it. One time. I couldn't repeat the event. That one time ruined my record of never having gotten it to work at all.

I joined any number of people who damaged their shows and were unable to strike a useful removal setting—and posted to say so. It was a relief when Noise Reduction was designed and actually did useful work, but it was a surprise, no shock, when people started posting they loved Noise Removal and were prepared to commit ritual seppuku unless it came back. But those people are a tiny minority compared to the earlier complaints.

Noise Removal was the cause of the ACX AudioBook warning that readers should never use noise processing. It's true. Noise Removal could almost always be heard in the voice. It was extraordinarily difficult to get right.

Not so Noise Reduction. There are effective Noise Reduction values ACX apparently can't find and people are publishing right now with natural sounding presentations less noisy than they would ordinarily be.

As we go through this, it's entirely possible that people fell in love with a Noise Removal defect. For example, if you are experiencing corrections in sounds not present in the profile (wishing wind sounds), that's broken.

So the real request is provide a way to break Noise Reduction in the same manner as Noise Removal was, but under controlled conditions.

Koz
kozikowski
Forum Staff
 
Posts: 36274
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:57 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Operating System: OS X 10.9 Mavericks

Re: Problems with the new Noise Reduction replacing Noise Re

Permanent link to this post Posted by Gale Andrews » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:47 am

sizemore wrote:I have two computers, side-by-side: the old computer with Audacity 2.0.5 and Noise Removal, and the new computer with Audacity 2.1.0 and Noise Reduction. I do ALL my vocals recording on the old computer, so I can enjoy the benefits of Audacity 2.0.5 and Noise removal.

Or you can recognise that you can get better results with the new effect (as Steve demonstrated) if you are willing to experiment with the controls (listening to the Residue may help). I think that is the main disbenefit of the new effect, that more experimentation may be needed.

Note that if you were using the current 2.1.2 version of Audacity ( http://audacityteam.org/download/ ) you would see that the Frequency Smoothing setting was now set to a better default.

Or you can export WAV without doing noise reduction in Audacity. For example I often use Goldwave just for Noise Reduction or Click Removal.

sizemore wrote:(Please note: even though the wav file was 4 MB, and therefore the upload should not have been rejected by this platform, I was forced to upload mp3, instead, due to file size.

The file size upload limit is 2 MB as stated on How to post an audio sample.


Gale
________________________________________FOR INSTANT HELP: (Click on Link below)
* * * * * Tips * * * * * Tutorials * * * * * Quick Start Guide * * * * * Audacity Manual
Gale Andrews
Quality Assurance
 
Posts: 25538
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:02 am
Operating System: Windows 10

PreviousNext

Return to Audacity 2.x Feedback and Reviews



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests