Problems with the new Noise Reduction replacing Noise Remova

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Problems with the new Noise Reduction replacing Noise Remova

Permanent link to this post Posted by darrendeans » Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:01 pm

Hello, love Audacity, used it since the very first version.

Sadly today for the first time I uninstalled the software and went back a version following problems with the Noise Reduction effect that replaces Noise Removal.

When using the Noise Reduction its leaving a 'metallic' sounding effect in the audio, welcome any help and advice.

Sample clip: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dckaany6qljo8 ... 1.mp3?dl=0

DD
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Re: Problems with the new Noise Reduction replacing Noise Re

Permanent link to this post Posted by steve » Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:10 pm

Thanks for the feedback.
Could you post a sample of the audio that you are trying to clean (including both some "noise only" for the profile and some "noise + sound" for the audio that you want to keep).
Also could you list what settings you are using for both the old Noise Removal effect and the new Noise Reduction effect.
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Re: Problems with the new Noise Reduction replacing Noise Re

Permanent link to this post Posted by darrendeans » Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:08 pm

Thank you.

I use the noise removal to remove the basic background noise after recording voice tracks.

Example basic background noise:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6pujj2rft0zdm ... 1.mp3?dl=0

The settings are normally just factory default and it's worked perfectly forever - until the new feature.

The new Noise Reduction removes the noise, but creates the 'metallic' sounding effect in the audio on any breaths or sounds not removed. This never happened before with the old feature and I use 20 times a day.

Welcome you feedback.

DD
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Re: Problems with the new Noise Reduction replacing Noise Re

Permanent link to this post Posted by kozikowski » Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:50 pm

the old feature and I use 20 times a day.

I don't know that you need to do that. The noise sample you posted is not obtrusive and just sitting there it meets ACX AudioBook guidelines for background noise. However, if your recording technique isn't very good, then yes, you may need technical help. If you fix your basic recording, then you might not need the extra Noise Reduction step.

There is a posting where ACX tells us that requiring Noise Reduction is a sure sign you're doing it wrong.

Image

But yes. The original Noise Removal "went around" spoken words and depended on your performance being loud enough to cover up the noise. Metallic voices are a sure sign Noise Reduction is trying to work on the background sounds and your voice.

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Re: Problems with the new Noise Reduction replacing Noise Re

Permanent link to this post Posted by Gale Andrews » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:58 pm

We would need one sample containing the noise only, followed by the sound you want to keep (before you do Noise Reduction).

Have you read http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/Noise_Reduction#Tips? To reduce artifacts you may need to increase Sensitivity.


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Re: Problems with the new Noise Reduction replacing Noise Re

Permanent link to this post Posted by darrendeans » Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:43 am

If it was possible please do consider adding back the old 'noise removal' as a plug-in or archive feature or under a different name, all the work has been done and it would be a great shame to drop something completely that was working so very well.

As an example of the audio, this is a file before the background is removed:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6pujj2rft0zdm ... 1.mp3?dl=0

And this is the sample post removal:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dckaany6qljo8 ... 1.mp3?dl=0

I can do louder examples if that helps. The Noise Reduction its leaving a 'metallic' sounding effect in the audio.

Is it possible the old 'noise removal can be complied as a new optional 'plus-in' as an alternative?

DD
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Re: Problems with the new Noise Reduction replacing Noise Re

Permanent link to this post Posted by steve » Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:25 am

The new version has not actually changed very much in terms of algorithm. The main change is that the FFT windows are now correctly shaped, and in repeated tests with many different audio samples that fix has made a significant improvement. I definitely don't think that we want to lose that improvement. Unfortunately some of the additional changes have (in my opinion) been less successful, and although they work well with certain types of noise (in particular with "white noise") they work less well with other types of noise than the old effect.

Please note that the new effect is "new". Whereas the old effect was tweaked for improved performance over many years, the new effect has had only had one release cycle period. These types of effect require lots of testing with many different noise/audio samples in order to achieve their full potential, but there is only so much testing that the few of us that do alpha-testing can do over a 3 month period. Now that the new effect has been released we are able to receive feedback (and audio samples) from a much larger user base.
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Re: Problems with the new Noise Reduction replacing Noise Re

Permanent link to this post Posted by steve » Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:33 am

darrendeans wrote:As an example of the audio, this is a file before the background is removed:

Thanks for the samples, but for testing we require audio that contains (at least) a couple of seconds of "noise only" AND a couple of seconds of the recorded audio (the part that we want to keep).

Noise reduction is a balancing act between reducing the noise and not damaging the retained audio, so we need to be able to test both sides of the scale. Ideally the audio samples should be in WAV or FLAC format (MP3 is a "lossy" format, so if we are sent an MP3 copy, then our copy is slightly different from the user's original, and that can make a big difference between our results and the user's results).
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Re: Problems with the new Noise Reduction replacing Noise Re

Permanent link to this post Posted by steve » Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:35 am

darrendeans wrote:And this is the sample post removal:

If you use the default settings as shown below, the result sounds much better to my ear.

Image

This audio sample uses the default setting but with the "Noise Reduction" pushed up to 48 dB:
pre-noise-removal-001-after.flac
After noise reduction
(69.02 KiB) Downloaded 87 times
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Re: Problems with the new Noise Reduction replacing Noise Re

Permanent link to this post Posted by Paul L » Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:51 am

darrendeans I understand you use default settings with 2.0.6. What settings did you use for 2.1.0 and what attempt did you make to vary them from defaults?

The old effect defaulted to 150 Hz frequency smoothing. The equivalent of that setting in the new is 6 bands, if your sample rate is the usual 44100 Hz. The default for frequency smoothing is now 0, but you should try increasing it.
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