Audacity can't see data folder

Hi. I’m using Audacity 2.1.3 on a 2014 Mac Air updated to Sierra, via dmg. It’s been performing oddly lately - crashed three times in an all-day editing session last week. Once I shipped the project I used CleanMyMac to reset the app. I don’t know if that’s fixed everything - just opened it for the first time since then.

Today’s problem: I’m trying to open a file I’ve been working on. The data file for it is right next to it. But I’m getting an error message that it can’t be opened because the data file can’t be found.

Both files were in a Dropbox folder. I moved them out to the desktop and tried again. Wouldn’t open. Moved them back, because why not try? But the same result. I tried shouting “The folder is RIGHT THERE!”. No change.

In the pictures you can see them sitting next to each other in the file. (I’ve blurred the file names.) When I drill down into the data file, everything looks normal: e00 file → d00 d01 d02 d03 files, all with .aud files inside, as shown.

Any way to fix this?
Audacity - 2.jpg
Audacity - 1.jpg

Much safer to avoid “Dropbox”, in my opinion.

As you can see, your _data folder is not named the same as the AUP file. If your AUP file is “foo_raw.aup” then your _data folder should be “foo_raw_data”.

You should never copy the AUP file and _data folder into the same folder. This will destroy your project after you open the copy a couple of times.

If you have any more concerns please attach the AUP file itself.


Gale


Whoa! How can that happen? If this is true we need to update the Audacity project page in the manual to warn about this.

– Bill

Is this a good place to urge strongly work on the Project Unitary File System?

How many shows need to go into the can before a change to the Project format becomes important? I’m looking for a number, not a philosophy.

Koz

Of course it is true. I say it on the Forum every time people hand copy in the same folder or are thinking about it. I agree I have not tested if Paul’s changes for 2.2.0-alpha stop the data loss but it is still a crazy idea to copy into the same folder - you get different names for the files and folders and misreferenced _data folder in the AUP file.

It is in the Manual - see Managing Audacity Projects - Audacity Manual and scroll down to “Saving copies of projects”. Also see FAQ:Opening and Saving Files - Audacity Manual.

James and Peter wanted only yellow advice divs on the Projects page so the warning is toned down there.


Gale

Perhaps we misunderstand what you mean Gale.

For example, if I have a folder where I archive my Audacity projects called:

some-path/audacity-projects/

and I have a project somewhere else on my computer called “my-project”, then I have a file called “my-project.aup” and a folder called “my-project_data”.

Is it not perfectly OK for me to move “my-project.aup” and “my-project_data” into “some-path/audacity-projects/” so that I have:

some-path/audacity-projects/my-project.aup
some-path/audacity-projects/my-project_data

provided that any dependencies remain accessible (and preferable for portability that dependencies are copied into the project).

Do you mean it is perfectly OK?

What I am talking about is users not knowing Save Project As and (an example on my computer), selecting
in Explorer:
C:\Goldwave1_click_at_end.aup
C:\Goldwave1_click_at_end_data

Then copy those two items and paste into C:\ then open the copied AUP a couple of times or perhaps other combinations. Then users say they lost all the AU files. I say, just don’t do it.


Gale

I mean that I thought it was perfectly OK to do what I described, but you appear to be saying that it’s not OK.

I can see that it’s not OK to do what I described during and open and active editing session, but that would be rather a daft thing to do wouldn’t it?

No, I think it’s fine to do what you described if you know what you are doing but I misparsed it because you actually asked a question but did not punctuate with a question mark.

You can even leave the project dependent on an aliased file as long as long as you leave the alias where it is.

Indeed, you should close the project before doing a manual copy into your master folder for Audacity projects, to avoid orphan block files. You are moving into a different folder than the one where the project folder was before, and that is an intended benefit of the system.

I think it is still safer for a noob to use Save Project As to move the project, but then it is arguably more confusing to do that. A project manager where you could also delete projects would be more friendly.


Gale

“Save Project As” is certainly important, so good to promote as a way of working. It’s arguably the only safe way to rename a project.

I misunderstood. You said:

I think what you meant was:

You should never copy the AUP file and _data folder into the same folder > as the original project> . This will destroy your project after you open the copy a couple of times.

That makes perfect sense.

– Bill

Do you agree the Manual is clear, Bill? I am not seeing the difference in your interpretation. Copy your project from its special starting folder into your master projects folder, then select and copy and paste that AUP file and _data folder in the master folder using Explorer. You have exactly the same problem and people do that sort of thing as a “backup”.

Gale

Please say that again with example file paths. The way that reads sounds just like the “OK” example that I gave,

Please read the Manual.

Your premaster folder is C:\Premasters. You have saved Premaster.AUP and Premaster_data in there. You are happy so you copy C:\Premasters\Premaster.AUP and C:\Premasters\Premaster_data into your masters folder C:\Masters.

Now in C:\Masters select Premaster.AUP and Premaster_data in Explorer. Copy. Paste into C:\Masters. I do NOT call C:\Masters the original project folder. That was C:\Premasters. The problem is copy-pasting into the SAME folder in which you made the copy action.


Gale

I presume that you then have something like:

C:\Masters\Premaster.AUP
C:\Masters\Premaster_data
C:\Masters\Premaster (copy).AUP
C:\Masters\Premaster_data (copy)

where the “(copy)” version is a broken project. Is that the problem that you are describing?

Actually, you can open the “(copy)” AUP project file and work on it. But it is referencing the non-copy data folder. So you could make some edits, close it then open the non-copy AUP file. Now you have problems (missing or extra blockfiles).

But I can’t see how, after making copies as you’ve described, you could destroy the non-copy AUP file if you never open the “(copy)” AUP file. Of course you will destroy the “(copy)” project, so doing this as a backup is pointless.

My use of the word phrase “original folder” was meant to imply “don’t make a copy of a project in the same folder”. So, Gale, you’re right - you’re original statement was correct. But my first reading of it was copying a project from one folder to another, in that case “same” meant that the AUP and _data folder went into the “same” folder (not necessarily the folder they came from). Ah, the vagaries and ambiguities of the English language. :smiley:

– Bill

My use of the word phrase “original folder” was meant to imply “don’t make a copy of a project in the same folder”. So, Gale, you’re right - you’re original statement was correct. But my first reading of it was copying a project from one folder to another, in that case “same” meant that the AUP and _data folder went into the “same” folder (not necessarily the folder they came from).

Seems simple enough.

We used to have a saying that if you can’t write clear instructions for what you’re doing, you might be doing it wrong. Come oooooooon untary file system.

I can think of one problem with abandoning the split file system. The doyens of the system will no longer wear the robes, crest and fuzzy slippers. No more audiences with the wizards. All gone. Or I guess “redundant” is the phrase.

Koz

Whatever the developers do I’m not giving up the fuzzy slippers. You know how brutal the winters can be here.

Koz

I’m backing up to Gale’s original response. Most everything beyond that, frankly, went well over my head.

I should clarify that I’m the kind of user who opens Terminal maybe four times a year, and only with very specific instructions as to what I should cut and paste into it. If it’s not on the front end, I probably haven’t seen it and have a low chance of understanding it.

All of that said: Gale, here’s a new pic with less of the title blurred. Are you saying it’s the word “copy” at the end of _data that’s screwing it up? If so, would simply renaming the folder solve the problem?

And what’s the incompatibility with Dropbox? I’m not the only one working on the files, so this matters.

Thanks. This time I’ll remember to tick “Notify me” so I’ll know the conversation is happening. :wink:
GHOURpic - 1.jpg

Most everything beyond that, frankly, went well over my head.

Isn’t that just the most fun you’ve had all day? And these are critical user files.

If you open the AUP file in a text editor (do not save anything), the original project (show) name is burned into it.

Example:

See up near the top there where it says: projname=" ? It doesn’t matter what you remember, Audacity thinks the show name is whatever is printed there. In my case, I called my presentation MyMusic.

It’s not a complete mish-mash. The top third of that is introduction, header and general information, the middle third is stuff that affects “Left” and the bottom third is stuff that affects “Right” in a stereo show.

When you develop and program this stuff, you have to follow some logic, layout and rhythm, or nobody will ever be able to fix it later.

Koz