Inversion

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Inversion

Permanent link to this post Posted by Electric_Dreamer » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:04 pm

Terve!!! Hello!!!
I don't quite understand this:
http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/invert.html
Is inversion available or not? I did not find it in Effects-menu. Sooner or later I would need it. I mean vertical inversion, the thing which J.S.Bach and many others did. I know already how reversion is made.
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Re: Inversion

Permanent link to this post Posted by steve » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:23 pm

Electric_Dreamer wrote:I mean vertical inversion, the thing which J.S.Bach and many others did.

"Inversion" in the sense of J.S.Bach is different and unrelated to "inversion" in a signal processing sense. The only similarity is that they turn "something" the other way up.
In the case of J.S.Bach it is musical intervals that are inverted. In the case of signal processing it is sample values that are inverted.

Audacity has an effect that performs inversion in a signal processing sense. Audacity does not have inversion in a J.S.Bach sense.
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Re: Inversion

Permanent link to this post Posted by Electric_Dreamer » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:05 am

I know what inversion is. I am not interested in melodies, but in any case I mean inverting a complex texture of sounds vertically. Does Audacity do it?
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Re: Inversion

Permanent link to this post Posted by steve » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:34 am

Electric_Dreamer wrote:I know what inversion is. I am not interested in melodies, but in any case I mean inverting a complex texture of sounds vertically. Does Audacity do it?

As I wrote previously, Audacity inverts in the signal processing sense only. That is, all positive samples (where the waveform is above the track's centrer line) become negative and vice versa.

This:
firsttrack000.png
firsttrack000.png (9.11 KiB) Viewed 139 times


becomes this:
firsttrack001.png
firsttrack001.png (9.07 KiB) Viewed 139 times
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Re: Inversion

Permanent link to this post Posted by DVDdoug » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:22 pm

I mean vertical inversion, the thing which J.S.Bach and many others did. I know already how reversion is made.

I know what inversion is. I am not interested in melodies, but in any case I mean inverting a complex texture of sounds vertically.
Sorry, I don't understand that. Of course, Bach didn't have any way of recording or editing audio... And, Audacity can't compose music, play an instrument, or conduct an orchestra... These are two different worlds...

Audacity works on sound waves (digital representation of sound waves). It doesn't work on "musical notes". Audacity can pitch-shift all of the notes together (to change the tuning or key) or it can change the tempo.

If you invert a copy of a file with Audacity it won't sound any different. But, if you mix the inverted file with the original you get silence. If you invert the left channel and mix the left & right, you'll silence any sounds that are identical and in-phase in both channels. That's how vocal removal effects work. If you invert the left or lright channel and play in stereo, the soundwaves will cancel imperfectly in the air. Most of the bass will be lost and you'll get a "spacey -phasey" sound.

If you want to invert (or otherwise change) the chords/notes, the best solution is MIDI files (not audio files) and MIDI software. You can compose with MIDI or play virtual MIDI instruments (or physical MIDI instruments) with software.

Auto-tune or Melodyne can manipulate "notes" in an audio file with certain limitations.
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Re: Inversion

Permanent link to this post Posted by Electric_Dreamer » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:03 pm

Thank you for explenations. Now I understand.
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