24-Bit Recording Status

Help for Audacity 2.x.x on Windows.

ImageThis forum is for Audacity 2.x.x on Windows.

  • Please state which version of Windows you are using, the exact three-section version of Audacity from "Help menu > About Audacity".

  • Audacity 1.2.x and 1.3.x are obsolete and no longer supported. If you still have those versions, please upgrade at https://www.audacityteam.org/download/.
    The old forums for those versions are now closed, but you can still read the archives of the 1.2.x and 1.3.x forums.

24-Bit Recording Status

Permanent link to this post Posted by Apesbrain » Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:06 pm

I use an older ASIO build but I still see people saying the latest Audacity for Windows as downloaded can't record true 24-bit audio. What are the facts with regard to this subject? Thanks.
Apesbrain
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:58 pm
Operating System: Please select

Re: 24-Bit Recording Status

Permanent link to this post Posted by cyrano » Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:00 pm

These people are wrong. I suppose they don't even know what 24 bit means. All they understand is that "24" is bigger than "16" and they believe it sounds better.

Internally, Audacity works at 32 bit, to avoid any quality loss. If you have a very good soundcard, you can record at 24 bit. An average 24 bit card will only yield 20 bit. And run-off-the-mill soundcards usually only offer 16 bit. You need the best if you are mixing and manipulating audio, but a good 16 bit card will probably sound better than a mediocre 24 bit card.

If it's just a record, for playback and you're doing just a bit of shortening and that kind of "cut away" editing, 16 bit is plenty. Nobody can hear the difference between 24 and 16 bit in playback.

And all of this is independent from the sample rate, 44.1, 48, 96 or 192 kHz.
cyrano
 
Posts: 1283
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:54 pm
Operating System: OS X 10.9 Mavericks

Re: 24-Bit Recording Status

Permanent link to this post Posted by steve » Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:37 am

As far as I'm aware, there is still a 16-bit capture limit when using MME or DirectSound as "host" (in the device toolbar) though I don't have Windows to be able to test that. As I understand it, 24-bit recording should be available using WASAPI host (provided that your hardware and drivers fully support WASAPI of course). If you have a 24-bit sound card, perhaps you could test that with Audacity 2.1.2 from here: http://www.audacityteam.org/download/
9/10 questions are answered in the FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (FAQ)
steve
Site Admin
 
Posts: 44991
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:43 am
Operating System: Linux *buntu

Re: 24-Bit Recording Status

Permanent link to this post Posted by Gale Andrews » Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:25 pm

steve wrote:As far as I'm aware, there is still a 16-bit capture limit when using MME or DirectSound as "host" (in the device toolbar) though I don't have Windows to be able to test that. As I understand it, 24-bit recording should be available using WASAPI host (provided that your hardware and drivers fully support WASAPI of course).

That is correct. From http://audacityteam.org/about/features/:

Record at 24-bit depth on Windows (using Windows WASAPI host), Mac OS X or Linux (using ALSA or JACK host).



Gale
________________________________________FOR INSTANT HELP: (Click on Link below)
* * * * * Tips * * * * * Tutorials * * * * * Quick Start Guide * * * * * Audacity Manual
Gale Andrews
Quality Assurance
 
Posts: 26093
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:02 am
Operating System: Windows 10

Re: 24-Bit Recording Status

Permanent link to this post Posted by UweB » Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:07 pm

Record at 24-bit depth on Windows (using Windows WASAPI host), Mac OS X or Linux (using ALSA or JACK host).

I tried it and it works perfectly, but with 48 kHz only. With 96 kHz I get "Error while opening device". 96 kHz (actually 8 kHz up to 192 kHz) work with MME, but with 16 bit only and some kind of dithering, of course.
I'm using 2.1.2 and I tried the recent nightly built 2.1.3, but that's the same. BTW, with 2.1.1 WASAPI did not work at all.

I use Win 10 Pro on a new PC (not upgraded) together with a USB Audio Class 1 interface, so there is no driver to be updated. The Project Rate is set to 96000. The interface works perfectly on MACs with 24 bit.

Anything that I might do wrong or is Audacity not that far yet? Will it work in future?

Regards, Uwe
UweB
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:43 am
Operating System: Please select

Re: 24-Bit Recording Status

Permanent link to this post Posted by DVDdoug » Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:26 pm

I tried it and it works perfectly, but with 48 kHz only.
I THINK that means your soundcard only runs at 48kHz internally . It's not unusual for the hardware to have a fixed clock. "Normal" windows drivers take care of any conversion and pretty much hide the hardware capabilities/limits. The bit depth is always fixed in hardware, but the drivers can transparently up-sample or down-sample as necessary.

There may be another WASAPI mode that allows upsampling, but I don't know how to set that up and of course there is no audio benefit to doing that.
DVDdoug
Forum Crew
 
Posts: 2872
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:30 pm
Operating System: Windows 10

Re: 24-Bit Recording Status

Permanent link to this post Posted by UweB » Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:52 pm

Hi, thanks for the answer
I THINK that means your soundcard only runs at 48kHz internally

it's not a soundcard, it's an external USB interface (possibly also called a "soundcard"). This USB interface is a digital-audio-to-USB adapter (either S/PDIF- or Toslink-to-USB) which is capable one direction only and nothing but the sample rate of the incoming digital audio signal. I.e., it always runs exactly at the clock of the audio source.
"Normal" windows drivers take care of any conversion and pretty much hide the hardware capabilities/limits

The driver is the Windows internal USB Audio Class 1 (UAC1) driver, not a propriety one. This UAC1 driver is capable of up to 96 kHz with 24 bit or 192 kHz with 16 bit. And because my USB interface is only capable of the incoming data rate, the UAC1 driver's output can only be the same as the input. And so it is.

Note that on MACs happens exactly what I describe here (e.g., 96 kHz and all 24 bit) and that on Windows in MME mode also 96 kHz, but truncated to 16 bit, are working.
There may be another WASAPI mode that allows upsampling, but I don't know how to set that up and of course there is no audio benefit to doing that.

I agree. Maybe somebody cared for Windows 24 bit but didn't expect that somebody would come up and ask for 24 bit not only at 48 kHz, but also at 96 kHz. In case there is just a source for such a signal missing, I can possibly help.
UweB
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:43 am
Operating System: Please select

Re: 24-Bit Recording Status

Permanent link to this post Posted by steve » Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:58 pm

For WASAPI, the sample rates should be set the same throughout. That means, the "device", Audacity, and Windows. Have you set Windows to use 96 kHz in the Windows Sound Control Panel?
9/10 questions are answered in the FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (FAQ)
steve
Site Admin
 
Posts: 44991
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:43 am
Operating System: Linux *buntu

Re: 24-Bit Recording Status

Permanent link to this post Posted by UweB » Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:23 pm

In System Tray > Recording Devices > Recording > Properties > Advanced > Default Format only one sample rate is available, which is in this case 2 channels, 24 bit, 96000 Hz. Thus the box is grayed out and there is nothing to select or set up. As I wrote: My USB device is capable of one sample rate only, and that is the sample rate of the incoming digital audio stream.

FYI: When this sample rate changes, the device disappears and a different USB audio device appears which, of course, is capable of nothing but the new sample rate. This device has a different name and the sample rate is part of the name.
UweB
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat May 02, 2015 10:43 am
Operating System: Please select

Re: 24-Bit Recording Status

Permanent link to this post Posted by cyrano » Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:25 pm

Out of curiosity: what device are you using to record?

When using S/PDIF there are a lot of devices that default to 48 kHz while being capable of other sample rates. And I've never even seen a device that was capable of only one sample rate. Mind you, I haven't seen all of them :D

There are basically two ways the "recording device" determines the incoming sample rate:

- By looking at the header
- By syncing with the incoming stream

Method 1 is according to the book, while method 2 is more flexible and more reliable, as there are devices out there that send the wrong headers. Method 2 will fail in case the transmitter sees the wrong impedance, or in case you're using a bad cable. AFAIK 99% of standalone devices use method 2.

I have no idea how the different Windows versions and the different devices on Windows handle this.
cyrano
 
Posts: 1283
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:54 pm
Operating System: OS X 10.9 Mavericks

Next

Return to Windows



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests