RMS Normalize

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Re: RMS Normalize

Permanent link to this post Posted by Tim Lookingbill » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:41 am

What do you mean "showing clipping"? There is no clipping in either of the files that I posted.


See screengrab from Audacity 2.1.3 for Mac.

Closer than what?


Closer in behavior than among all the tools that affect loudness whether by peak or RMS.

When I increase the loudness by sliding the Mac OS volume slider up (analog behavior) certain frequencies that couldn't be heard or were not as loud (mid-range detail) at normal comfortable volume are heard more or less over other frequencies but never equally overall as I noted in the clipped -3db peak (1st tone) whose overly crispy sound is not an equal in loudness behavior. I'm assuming this could be from the soundcard in my Mac Mini. Not sure.

Screen shot 2017-04-02 at 9.29.56 PM.png
Screen shot 2017-04-02 at 9.29.56 PM.png (28.59 KiB) Viewed 1028 times
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Re: RMS Normalize

Permanent link to this post Posted by steve » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:51 am

Tim Lookingbill wrote:See screengrab from Audacity 2.1.3 for Mac.

Open Audacity Preferences, and in the "Import/Export" section, turn off (de-select) the option to normalize on import.
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Re: RMS Normalize

Permanent link to this post Posted by steve » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:53 am

steve wrote:turn off (de-select) the option to normalize on import.

Do you understand why that option is the problem or would you like a bit of explanation?
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Re: RMS Normalize

Permanent link to this post Posted by Tim Lookingbill » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:03 am

Sorry for for the delayed response, Steve.

I understand the "Normalize Tracks on Import" function because it's also in Garageband but on export where I have both turned off and in Audacity the box is not checked.

I was thinking this could be caused by my AT&T broadband package doing some kind of compressing or altering the data upon download. I hope this isn't the case.

Just FYI but some commercial aiff CD files show these clipping indicators but when I apply Amplify it shows zero. When I apply a (-.02db) and zoom to point node level on the clipped wave and 'Command Z' back and forth the wave peak barely moves so clipping indicator sensitivity to defining 0db may be the problem because this is the case with your .ogg first tone. I'm getting 0db in Amplify.
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Re: RMS Normalize

Permanent link to this post Posted by steve » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:03 pm

It's not you, or your broadband.
I'm not sure what went wrong, but the files in the forum post are wrong.
Sorry about the confusion. I'll delete those files and replace them.
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Re: RMS Normalize

Permanent link to this post Posted by steve » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:52 pm

I've replaced the files now (this post).
Hopefully this will make more sense now.
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Re: RMS Normalize

Permanent link to this post Posted by Tim Lookingbill » Tue Apr 04, 2017 1:50 am

steve wrote:I've replaced the files now (this post).
Hopefully this will make more sense now.


Ok, there's no clipping on the -3db Peak. And now the -12db RMS is quieter than the -3db Peak.

And I just re-read the initial post and now see what you mean about the noisy 4th tone varies in loudness in relation to the 5th tone depending on RMS vs Peak Normalizing. It now makes sense.

And I believe I see that the RMS Normalize addresses my issue with balanced loudness increase across all frequencies that will control errant high frequencies from being to overly loud compared to the rest of the spectrum.

Thanks, Steve.
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Re: RMS Normalize

Permanent link to this post Posted by kozikowski » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:58 am

Is there a reason the code contains neither revision nor date?
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Re: RMS Normalize

Permanent link to this post Posted by steve » Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:32 am

kozikowski wrote:Is there a reason the code contains neither revision nor date?

No there isn't.
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Re: RMS Normalize

Permanent link to this post Posted by pato » Wed May 10, 2017 11:36 pm

Steve/Koz:

Questions re installing and using RMS Normalize in Audacity v2.1.3 running on Win10.

Installing
I just downloaded the RMS Normalize plug-in; copied it into my Audacity plug-ins folder; then in Audacity used Effect> Add/Remove Plug-ins to enable it. The Plug-in Manager list now shows it as enabled; likewise Limiter. Yet, when I try to apply it to an existing track in an Audacity project, the Effect drop-down menu doesn't show RMS Normalize or Limiter though it does show many other effects.
Question: How do I get RMS Normalize and Limiter to appear here available for use?

Using
On 3/3/17 you recommended (I think in this thread) to use the effects sequence: "RMS Normalize, Limiter, EQ, LF Rolloff"
Question: Assuming these are applied sequentially, if the RMS Normalize effect pushes a peak above 0db, wouldn't that peak be clipped at 0db before the Limiter effect can squash it less clumsily back down to 0db or below? What am I missing here?

On 4/1/17 you wrote in this thread in response to another user's question (maybe getting at the same point as my question):
"If you amplify too much (above 0 dB), by any means, then it will be distorted (clipped) on playback.

Provided that the audio tracks are 32-bit float format (default), amplifying a track beyond 0 dB is not "fatal". 32-bit float format does not clip at 0 dB, but sound cards are 16 or 24 bit integer, so sound cards clip at 0 dB on play / record."

I normally record (spoken word mono) with Edit > Preferences > Quality > Default Sample Format 16bit.
Questions:
-- Does recording with Sample Format 16bit or 24 bit rather than 32-bit float mean that all peaks normalized to above 0db will be clipped? If not, why not? Can you give a relatively simple explanation of why 32-bit float is not (or at least, is less) vulnerable to clipping?
-- Should the track be compressed before normalizing in order to reduce the chance of clipping peaks? If so, why not mention compression in your 3/3/17 comment?
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