opening more than 1 program

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Re: opening more than 1 program

Permanent link to this post Posted by Gale Andrews » Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:59 am

steve wrote:
Gale Andrews wrote:But even with one Audacity instance, people may be editing videos while recording. We can only give general guidance.

Indeed we do. We advise:
"Real-time recording is a very resource-intensive task for computers, which in most settings are not recording studios but multi-task machines with many competing demands on their processor. Therefore it's important to take steps to maximise available computer resources when recording."

http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Managing_Computer_Resources_and_Drivers
Promoting running multiple instances of Audacity as a feature, appears somewhat contrary to that advice don't you think?

I am not "promoting" except in so far as you made me spell out how to do it. ;) It is "unofficial".

The fact is that people do ask about running multiple instances from time to time. It could be safer than using one instance, as things are now.

Yes the advice above stands, but was originally written in the days of Windows XP. If you don't get recording dropouts with one instance of Audacity, you probably won't with two instances. It is good to suggest alternatives to using two instances, like a hardware recorder or another computer.

I would not recommend recording in an instance of Audacity in a virtual machine. That will likely tax the computer much more than another real instance of Audacity.

steve wrote:I can appreciate some of the frustration for some users in that if they have a quad core processor and see Audacity running with less than 25% CPU load, it gives the impression that they are needlessly waiting around for Audacity. If we make better use of multiple core CPUs, then perhaps the incentive for running multiple instances will be somewhat diminished.

Even then, if we just lock Audacity down to the "single project recorder/player model" it will probably encourage more people to look for "unofficial" solutions to record and edit at the same time.


Gale
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Re: opening more than 1 program

Permanent link to this post Posted by waxcylinder » Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:42 am

Gale Andrews wrote:Even then, if we just lock Audacity down to the "single project recorder/player model" it will probably encourage more people to look for "unofficial" solutions to record and edit at the same time.

If we are serious about wanting "mult-project" then we need to get serious about resolving the wormcan discsussion paper in the Wiki:
http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/The_M ... ct_Wormcan

James kicked this off in January 2015 - we suspended active work on addressing it in order to get an earlier release out as the (rightful) priority - but since then very little has happened on it.

For my money in the current situation it is egregious and dangerous that actions in Project-B can affect recording (in particular) and playback in Project-A. the actions should only occur in the project that is active and be seen - so I support the "single project recorder/player model".

An analogy: when I get in our car on the drive outside when I don't expect the little sportscar in the garage to fire up.

Peter
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Re: opening more than 1 program

Permanent link to this post Posted by cyrano » Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:11 pm

I've read that Wiki page...

While I agree you can do funky stuff like recording in a VM simultaneously with a recording in the native OS, my first thought was that WE can, but the majority of Audacity users can't.

If you're careful and experienced, a lot of funky stuff is possible. I you want it to work for everyone, simply don't enable it. Tell them them it doesn't work, it isn't possible. Otherwise the very first user will find a way to screw it up somehow.

The problem isn't technical, in se, it's inexperienced users who expect EVERYTHING to work, always. And not only in two instances, but also in 256 instances.
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Re: opening more than 1 program

Permanent link to this post Posted by steve » Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:14 pm

Gale Andrews wrote:Even then, if we just lock Audacity down to the "single project recorder/player model" it will probably encourage more people to look for "unofficial" solutions to record and edit at the same time.

I appreciate that there may be times when a user wants to edit one thing while recording another. The solution that I would recommend is standard practice in studios - do the recording on a different machine. The recording machine does not even need to be a PC as there are many ways to record high quality WAV files.

If the same PC must be used for both tasks, which is less than ideal, then for a Linux machine I'd recommend "Jack-capture". This has several advantages over using Audacity.
(1) as it uses Jack Audio system, it is possible to configure the audio connections so that Audacity cannot interfere with the recording,
(2) it will log errors if there are drop-outs, which is better than not finding glitches 'till hours, (or even weeks) later.
(3) once running, it will hang onto to its connection, making it very difficult to 'accidentally' disconnect.
(4) It can write directly to a WAV file, so no 'conversion' is required at the end of the recording, and in the event of a catastrophic crash, the recording up to that point is likely to survive.
(5) it is extremely light on computer resources (less that 1/10 of the CPU usage of Audacity).
There are also lightweight GUI jack recorders available (though probably not quite a lightweight as jack-capture).

I'm not aware of a comparable application for Windows.
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Re: opening more than 1 program

Permanent link to this post Posted by Gale Andrews » Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:44 am

Wiki might be a good place to post solutions to this question such as "jack-capture".

I don't know if JACK for Windows comes with jack-capture.

You can record from the command-line using Windows Sound Recorder on Windows 7 or Windows 8 in the form
Code: Select all
SoundRecorder /FILE filename.filetype /DURATION hhhh:mm:ss.

which I think is a way to get it to record to other than WMA.

I also guess you could record from the command-line using mplayer for Windows or SoX.


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Re: opening more than 1 program

Permanent link to this post Posted by steve » Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:03 am

I'd expect both SoX and SoundRecorder to be pretty good for minimal processor load, though because of the very limited routing capabilities of the Windows sound system, there's still a problem of signal routing when recording "stereo mix" isn't there? Can VB-Audio CABLE / Voicemeeter help in that respect?
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Re: opening more than 1 program

Permanent link to this post Posted by Gale Andrews » Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:04 pm

steve wrote:I'd expect both SoX and SoundRecorder to be pretty good for minimal processor load, though because of the very limited routing capabilities of the Windows sound system, there's still a problem of signal routing when recording "stereo mix" isn't there? Can VB-Audio CABLE / Voicemeeter help in that respect?

Although the Audacity Manual says VB-Audio Cable can grab audio only from the application, I have seen some people say it can't. Sound Leech definitely can.

Even if VB-Audio Cable picked up new streams playing to it, the solution would presumably be to set the Windows default devices to CABLE and Audacity playback to use the Speakers or Headphones you want. But if you had a second physical sound device you could use that instead of VB-Audio Cable.

According to http://vbaudio.jcedeveloppement.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=87#p177 you can't record at the command-line with VoiceMeeter.


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Re: opening more than 1 program

Permanent link to this post Posted by steve » Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:18 pm

Gale Andrews wrote:Sound Leech definitely can.

Ah yes, I'd forgotten about Sound Leech. Does that work with modern versions of Windows?
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Re: opening more than 1 program

Permanent link to this post Posted by Gale Andrews » Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:15 pm

steve wrote:
Gale Andrews wrote:Sound Leech definitely can.

Ah yes, I'd forgotten about Sound Leech. Does that work with modern versions of Windows?

I can't get it to record on Windows 10.

Also in Firefox, starting to leech crashes the flash player every time.


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Re: opening more than 1 program

Permanent link to this post Posted by Robert J. H. » Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:31 pm

There has been recently a program suggested on the Audacity4blind mailing list

I've intensively tested it. It's simply fantastic.
Of course, it hasn't all the feature Steve mentioned but it works great as it can be started with global hotkeys, command line and per GUI.
Give it a try, the original post from the author follows:

----- Original Message -----
*From:* Carlos <mailto:[email protected]>
*To:* BlindGeekZone <mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent:* Thursday, February 25, 2016 7:44 AM
*Subject:* [BlindGeekZone] New Utility - Virtual Recorder

Here is a new utility I wrote which some might find useful.  I will
paste the contents of the ReadMe file below.
================================
Virtual Recorder 1.0

Virtual Recorder is a GUI/frontend for the command line media converter
FFmpeg
http://ffmpeg.org/
and Virtual Audio Capture Device.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/virtualaudiodev/files/

Virtual Audio Capture Device is a DirectShow audio device which can be
used to capture/record what is playing through your speakers.  It is
also possible to record what is being played through your speakers if
your sound card has a loopback feature usually called
"Stereo Mix"/"What You Hear"
Unfortunately, not all sound cards support this feature, especially on
laptops.  Some other applications like Total Recorder, GoldWave, and
Audacity can also record what is being played through your speakers.  In
the case of Total Recorder using it's own virtual audio drivers.  In the
case of GoldWave and Audacity using the WASAPI loopback feature which is
native to versions of Windows starting with Vista.  However, Total
Recorder and GoldWave are not free, and with the WASAPI loopback feature
in Audacity, I kept receiving errors.  FFmpeg is capable of accessing
DirectShow audio devices for capturing/recording, but it is a command
line utility with many confusing parameters for the average user.  All
of the above reasons prompted me to start working on Virtual Recorder.
Virtual Recorder is free, and probably much easier to use than programs
like Total Recorder, GoldWave, and Audacity if all you want is an audio
recorder which can record what you hear, your sound card's input, or
both at the same time.  Virtual Recorder is not an attempt to compete
with such applications.  It is a simple audio recorder, that is all.

Most of the options should be fairly self-explanatory so I won't go into
great detail, but I will briefly mention and describe a few things which
may not be so obvious.  As mentioned above, you can record from the
virtual capture device which will only record what is playing through
your speakers.  (I.E. System sounds, audio from other applications
including your browser, and so on.)  Of course this means that if you
are recording an internet stream for example, system sounds, sounds
produced by other applications, and anything else you might play will
also be recorded.  You should take steps when making such recordings to
avoid this issue by not running such applications and possibly even
disabling system sounds in Control Panel.  You can also record from your
sound card's line-in and microphone.  Finally, you can record from both
the virtual capture device and your sound card's line-in/microphone at
the same time which might be useful for recording podcasts, Skype
sessions, and so on.  You can select what is recorded using the
"Recording source"
combo box.  If you select the
"Sound Card""
or
"Both"
options, you should also choose the appropriate input from the
"Device"
combo box.  Keep in mind that the virtual capture device only records
from which ever sound card is configured as the default system playback
device in Control Panel.  So if you wanted to record both sides of a
Skype session, you would have to take a few steps first.
1. Make sure that the speakers or headset you are using in Skype are
configured as the default playback device in Control Panel.  It is not
enough to select the device in the Skype audio settings.  You can access
the default audio devices in Control Panel quickly by pressing Windows
key R to open the
"Run"
dialog, and then typing
mmsys.cpl
followed by Enter.
2. Make sure that in Virtual Recorder, the
"Both"
option is selected in the
"Recording source"
combo box.
3. Select the microphone you are using in the
"Device"
combo box.
Note that when recording from both the virtual capture device and your
sound card at the same time, you may have overall lower levels in the
resulting file.  Use Virtual Recorder's
"Record Volume"
to compensate for this.  It may require some experimentation to achieve
desirable results.

You can record to the lossless flac/compressed, mp3, or lossless
wav/uncompressed audio formats.  Other formats could easily be added,
but I figured these are the three most commonly used.

If you select the
"Options"
button, you can configure some settings like whether the program runs at
startup, minimized to the tray, or completely hidden by disabling the
tray icon.  There is also a
"Global Hotkeys"
tab where you can assign hotkeys for starting, stopping, pausing, and
resuming recording when either the main window does not have focus or is
otherwise hidden.  You can also assign a hotkey for activating/showing
the main window when it is hidden.  Note that you cannot disable the
tray icon unless the
"Show main window"
hotkey is assigned since otherwise you would not be able to access the
program's main window.  For each hotkey, there is an associated
"Windows Key"
checkbox.  Use this checkbox if you want to use the Windows key modifier
as part of your shortcut combination.  For example, if you wanted to use
Control-Windows-F12 to start recording, you would press Control F12 in
the hotkey field and then enable the associated
"Windows Key"
checkbox.

All settings are saved in the file
VirtualRecorder.ini
located in the same folder as the program's main executable.
Last but not least, there are a few command line parameters for
scheduling recordings with the Windows Task Scheduler or other
scheduling software. Use -r to have the program start recording
automatically, -t to set a duration for the recording, and -x to have
the program close automatically when it is finished recording.  The
format for the duration should be hh:mm:ss (hours:minutes:seconds).
For example, to have the program record for 1 hour and then close, use
the following command:
VirtualRecorder.exe -r -t 01:00:00 -x
Record for 1 hour and 30 seconds:
VirtualRecorder.exe -r -t 01:00:30 -x
Record for 1 hour and 1 minute:
VirtualRecorder.exe -r -t 01:01:00 -x
Record for half an hour, but leave the program running:
VirtualRecorder.exe -r -t 00:30:00
Start recording and continue recording until manually stopped:
VirtualRecorder.exe -r
Note that when recording using command line parameters, the shown/hidden
state of the main window will be based on the settings in the
"Options"
dialog.

There is both an installer and a portable package for Virtual Recorder,
but due to requirements for making it portable, the two executables are
not the same.  In other words, do not attempt to use the installed
executable in portable mode.  It will not work correctly.  Also, since
the portable version requires administrator privileges to register the
virtual audio capture device, if UAC is enabled you will always be
prompted the first time it runs.  This is slightly annoying, but it is
the best I can do for now.
Both the installer and portable version can be found below at the usual
place thanks to Rob Hudson.
http://opopanax.net/download/

   Send comments, questions and suggestions to:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>

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