6 features

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6 features

Permanent link to this post Posted by Piotr Grochowski » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:00 pm

1. Linear volume scale

I would like a linear volume scale instead of the logarithmic one. In the dream implementation, colors of min and max can be picked. It can also have a gamma setting.

2. More interpolation options

There are currently 4 options: low quality (seems to use a weird bilinear-like filter), and medium/high/best that appear to be sinc filters, different on high frequencies for some reason.
What about nearest neighbor, and bilinear? They should have a no-alias option like the square wave generator has, but please make integer upsamplings exact. And please allow different options for upsampling and downsampling. A good one for downsampling is box filter. Takes a few samples and averages them. For example, downsampling from 3Hz to 1Hz would average the 3 samples for each second. And also throw in cosine, that exists in equalizer.
Cubic filter in equalizer is sinc, but it doesn't silence frequency/2 (Nyquist) tones!

A normal, unmodified sinc filter would upsample sounds without adding harmonics, and Nyquist frequency would be kept intact. When downsampling with standard sinc, the frequencies higher than new Nyquist frequency would linearly "bounce" from new Nyquist frequency. For example, when downsampling 600Hz wave to 1000Hz sample rate, it will become 400Hz. Downsampling with integer values (like 1/2 or 1/3 sample rate) is equivalent to nearest neighbor. Audacity doesn't seem to do that for some weird reason.

3. Remove limits

This experimental option removes limit on every function. On Hz functions, you can enter any Hz value, negative included, 0 included, over frequency/2 included and you can apply. There will be no limits to Amplifier or Pitch Shift as well. This is, repeatedly said, experimental, so it should be disabled by default. Because it's experimental, Audacity might crash. It may debug. This can be used to get past Audacity's stupid 31x tempo/speed/pitch change limit.

4. No-alias sawtooth

If square can be non-alias, why sawtooth can't? I don't want to learn Nyquist programming language.

5. Force resampling to Project Rate

If Project Rate is lower than 1000Hz, it will downsample to 8000Hz instead. If sound card really can't play low sample rate sounds, Audacity will downsample to Project Rate first, then upsample to frequency Audacity enjoys.

6. Audacity can't work in 8-bit PCM.

For retro fans who like low quality sounds, this is important. They want genuine 8-bit PCM.
Last edited by Piotr Grochowski on Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 6 features

Permanent link to this post Posted by steve » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:12 pm

For "experimenting", Audacity has the Nyquist Prompt: http://manual.audacityteam.org/man/nyquist_prompt.html
Most of the experimental features that you describe, plus many more experimental features, can be achieved with Nyquist. For example: https://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopi ... 31#p156631
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Re: 6 features

Permanent link to this post Posted by waxcylinder » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:16 pm

Piotr Grochowski wrote:1. Linear volume scale

I would like a linear volume scale instead of the logarithmic one. In the dream implementation, colors of min and max can be picked. It can also have a gamma setting.


If you mean linear meters then that is already available, click on the Mic and/or Speaker icon(s) in the two Meter toolbars and you should get a dialog with the option to select "linear" metering.

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Re: 6 features

Permanent link to this post Posted by Piotr Grochowski » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:14 am

I forgot to mention that 1. was for spectrograms.
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Re: 6 features

Permanent link to this post Posted by steve » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:22 am

I doubt that your feature request will garner much support unless you also put forward a compelling case for why each of these features would have practical benefit for Audacity users.
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Re: 6 features

Permanent link to this post Posted by kozikowski » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:47 pm

Audacity users.

Sound people......

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Re: 6 features

Permanent link to this post Posted by Piotr Grochowski » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:32 am

I don't like the logarithmic volume scale in Audacity. I can't distinguish between quiet and usual. And what if some people like nearest neighbor or bilinear upsampling, or want a different algorithm for downsampling? And what if some people want to use effects beyond limits? And what if people want high quality sawtooth wave? And what if people want to listen high sample rate sound in low sample rate that sound card doesn't support? And what if people want to save memory by using 8-bit PCM?

Here is the demonstration of low contrast of Audacity spectrograms (grayscale). Used noise, volume from 0 to 1. Spectrograms have minimum of 27 (Audacity) 27.5 (Photosounder), and maximum of 20000. Frequency scale is logarithmic. Audacity window size is 4096. Note that Audacity spectrograms look vertically pixelated in basses, because FFT has fixed linear frequency resolution.

Image

Note that Photosounder has black=none, and white=full. Audacity has light gray=none and black=full. But I see black in spectrograms everywhere. That's because Audacity spectrograms are of low contrast.
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Re: 6 features

Permanent link to this post Posted by steve » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:30 am

Piotr Grochowski wrote:I don't like the logarithmic volume scale in Audacity

You need to be specific. Which logarithmic scale? Audacity is an audio application, so not surprisingly there are logarithmic scales all over the place.

Piotr Grochowski wrote:I can't distinguish between quiet and usual

Again, please be specific or we won't know what you are talking about.

Piotr Grochowski wrote:And what if some people like nearest neighbor or bilinear upsampling, or want a different algorithm for downsampling?

Then they can implement it with Nyquist, or use a different app.

Piotr Grochowski wrote:And what if some people want to use effects beyond limits?

In some cases that will cause the effect and/or Audacity to crash.

In the case of Nyquist effects, they can (easily) modify the effect's "NY" file.
For built-in effects, they can download the Audacity source code (https://github.com/audacity/audacity), modify, and build (http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Devel ... fic_Guides

In the case of open source third party plug-ins, they can download and modify the source code from the developer's site, and/or petition the third party to modify their product (nothing to do with Audacity).

In the case of closed source effect, your only option is to ask the plug-in producer to modify their plug-in (nothing to do with Audacity).


Piotr Grochowski wrote:And what if people want high quality sawtooth wave?

You could read the replies already provided. I've already answered that.


Piotr Grochowski wrote:And what if people want to listen high sample rate sound in low sample rate that sound card doesn't support?

Unless your settings in the device toolbar prevent resampling, Audacity will resample on the fly to a rate that your sound card drivers say that they support.


Piotr Grochowski wrote:And what if people want to save memory by using 8-bit PCM?

Use a different application. Audacity does not support 8-bit audio data and there are no plans to do so. It's more likely that Audacity will become entirely 32-bit in the future.


Piotr Grochowski wrote:because FFT has fixed linear frequency resolution

Do you have a better algorithm than FFT?


Piotr Grochowski wrote:Note that Photosounder has black=none, and white=full. Audacity has light gray=none and black=full.

OK, that's a feature request that I can log, for greyscale spectrograms to have a range from black to white rather than black to grey.
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Re: 6 features

Permanent link to this post Posted by steve » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:49 am

steve wrote:OK, that's a feature request that I can log, for greyscale spectrograms to have a range from black to white rather than black to grey.

Done.
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Re: 6 features

Permanent link to this post Posted by Piotr Grochowski » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:23 pm

steve wrote:
Piotr Grochowski wrote:I don't like the logarithmic volume scale in Audacity

You need to be specific. Which logarithmic scale? Audacity is an audio application, so not surprisingly there are logarithmic scales all over the place.

Piotr Grochowski wrote:I can't distinguish between quiet and usual

Again, please be specific or we won't know what you are talking about.

Piotr Grochowski wrote:And what if some people like nearest neighbor or bilinear upsampling, or want a different algorithm for downsampling?

Then they can implement it with Nyquist, or use a different app.

Piotr Grochowski wrote:And what if some people want to use effects beyond limits?

In some cases that will cause the effect and/or Audacity to crash.

In the case of Nyquist effects, they can (easily) modify the effect's "NY" file.
For built-in effects, they can download the Audacity source code (https://github.com/audacity/audacity), modify, and build (http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Devel ... fic_Guides

In the case of open source third party plug-ins, they can download and modify the source code from the developer's site, and/or petition the third party to modify their product (nothing to do with Audacity).

In the case of closed source effect, your only option is to ask the plug-in producer to modify their plug-in (nothing to do with Audacity).


Piotr Grochowski wrote:And what if people want high quality sawtooth wave?

You could read the replies already provided. I've already answered that.


Piotr Grochowski wrote:And what if people want to listen high sample rate sound in low sample rate that sound card doesn't support?

Unless your settings in the device toolbar prevent resampling, Audacity will resample on the fly to a rate that your sound card drivers say that they support.


Piotr Grochowski wrote:And what if people want to save memory by using 8-bit PCM?

Use a different application. Audacity does not support 8-bit audio data and there are no plans to do so. It's more likely that Audacity will become entirely 32-bit in the future.


Piotr Grochowski wrote:because FFT has fixed linear frequency resolution

Do you have a better algorithm than FFT?


Piotr Grochowski wrote:Note that Photosounder has black=none, and white=full. Audacity has light gray=none and black=full.

OK, that's a feature request that I can log, for greyscale spectrograms to have a range from black to white rather than black to grey.


"You need to be specific. Which logarithmic scale? Audacity is an audio application, so not surprisingly there are logarithmic scales all over the place."
I already said that it refers to the grayscale in spectrograms that is with the grayscale option.

"Again, please be specific or we won't know what you are talking about."
Look at the picture. The Audacity spectrogram is of low contrast. It may not be visible, but low contrast clearly bothers me. Photosounder uses gamma-corrected linear scale.

"Then they can implement it with Nyquist, or use a different app."
Not many people understand a Nyquist, and what do you mean by using a different app? Do you mean using the mobile version of Audacity, since that is an app?

"In some cases that will cause the effect and/or Audacity to crash."
That's why I said that's an experimental option, duh.

"You could read the replies already provided. I've already answered that."
I'm not learning Nyquist for 1 year.

"Unless your settings in the device toolbar prevent resampling, Audacity will resample on the fly to a rate that your sound card drivers say that they support."
What I mean is that imagine a song. I want to play it in 999Hz. However, sound card drivers don't support that, so actual sample rate is 8000Hz and I hear high frequencies. What should be done is Audacity resamples to wanted sample rate, then resamples up to supported sample rate. I already said that.

"Use a different application. Audacity does not support 8-bit audio data and there are no plans to do so. It's more likely that Audacity will become entirely 32-bit in the future."
Did you really want retro fans to switch back and forth?

"Do you have a better algorithm than FFT?"
I didn't mean to say FFT is bad. I just mean to say it creates vertical pixelation, that's why it looks different than Photosounder spectrogram. If you really want a different algorithm, there is ARSS (constant logarithmic frequency resolution). Photosounder is non-opensource successor to ARSS, made by same person, that allows variable frequency resolution, by taking advantage of the fact that this algorithm generates frequency rows, not time rows.

"OK, that's a feature request that I can log, for greyscale spectrograms to have a range from black to white rather than black to grey."
...
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